Talk:List of mammals of North America

Ice Age Mammals

I'm going to add mammals that went extinct in the Ice Age.--4444hhhh (talk) 02:17, 6 November 2008 (UTC)

Primates

Why are introduced monkey (primate) populations repeatedly removed from this list even though they are sourced (such as the Vervet monkey and Rhesus Macaques in Florida)? I am tired of reverting this and don't care for an edit war but would suggest that an editor who is not an edit Nazi please review the list prior to primates being edited out (except for humans) and possibly lock it if appropriate. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 4.224.3.216 (talk) 16:00, 9 March 2009 (UTC)

The "Monkeys" (introduced) section under "Primates" was once again arbitrarily removed. So, are primates the only animals (except humans) that cannot be included in this list as introduced (I) species even though multiple reliable sources were given for each claim? There are other introduced (I) permanent populations of other mammals included in this list, why were they not edited out of the list as well? I believe this is unnecessary arbitrary editing done with no regard to the cited RELIABLE references in-order to satisfy a particular contributor's personal opinion on the matter and not SOURCED FACT. I reverted the edit once again so the list will include the introduced permanent populations of Monkeys (again, with MULTIPLE RELIABLE REFERENCES!). I will seek resolution [[1]] if this occurs again. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.133.42.16 (talk) 05:14, 14 January 2010 (UTC)

I re-added 69.133.42.16's "Monkeys" to the Primate section as they were deleted without reason given by user 68.89.75.105. I also attempted to clean up the section to make it fit in better but am unsure how to deal with the references (they lack text for some reason.) I'm still uncertain if the Japanese Macaque qualifies for this page since from what I've read (including one of the references given) they seem to remain mainly on the private ranch they originally were released on.

Please post reason given before blanking sections otherwise it may appear as vandalism to others. Thank you. 174.49.19.28 (talk) 19:45, 9 October 2011 (UTC)

cetaceans?

Don't whales/porpoises/dolphins fit under Cetartiodactyla?

They are strangely missing from this list....do we not consider these aquatic mammals to be of North America? I can guarantee you I've seen whales in our waters:)

Can someone please correct this? I would, but am unsure, with recent taxonomic shifting about, if they still fall here (the wiki article seems to indicate they do)

Regardless, they belong SOMEWHERE here... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 204.65.34.246 (talk) 20:53, 8 October 2010 (UTC)

African wild cat?

I'm assuming this is referring to the common house cat but while I fully understand that the African Wild Cat is the most likely ancestor to it, is it really necessary to list it as such? It's not really the same creature by this point. In fact it appears that the domestic cat has possibly up to 5 different original "eves" from which they started and that there is enough differences between the Domestic and it's wild brethren that there is an organization that is "specifically aimed at conserving African wildcats and reducing genetic pollution by domestic cats" according to the African Wild cat wiki page.

Also note that the domestic cat has its own scientific designation, Felis catus. While I understand that it may make things seem more tidy to some by using the ancestral species name instead in the place of the domestic, it will likely be confusing to many who are ignorant of such details.

On a side note if we include feral-to-wild cats shouldn't we also include dogs (feral dogs are nationwide as well as some wild dogs such as the Carolina Dog) and Horses (mustangs and other small feral herds?) 174.49.19.28 (talk) 22:45, 9 October 2011 (UTC)

Fixed some more deletions

Turns out that the animals I asked about in my earlier post were in fact added previously but were deleted en masse with others in a large act of probable vandalism back in June by user 68.89.75.105. I have re-added those which are well known to be living established in the wild within N. America, such as Wild Boar, Nutria, etc. Also, while the Horse evolved in North America, the domestic horse (whose main bloodline stems from the extinct European Wild Horse)) is highly unlikely to be the same species as that which perished in N.A. during the last Ice age thus for now I considered it an introduction, not a reintroduction and marked it as so. Others like llamas, domestic sheep & goats and guinea pigs which were listed prior are unlikely to have established wild populations (and I found no references stating they had) so I will not add them back but instead leave for others to do if they can find references stating otherwise.

I also left the "African wild cat" alone for the moment to see if there are any objections to it being switched to the more appropriate "Domestic Cat" as per my earlier discussion.

This is not OR, if references are needed I'll dig some up since these are all easily found on the net. Discuss here if you disagree, please do not just randomly delete or it will be assumed as vandalism and placed back. 174.49.19.28 (talk) 00:03, 10 October 2011 (UTC)

I just naively went to the list and saw donkeys and horses missing (and since there are widespread feral populations) I thought it would be pretty uncontroversial to add them to the list so I made the change to add those species in with the other (extinct) Equus. I then found this discussion afterward. So maybe these have already been added and removed? I completely agree that these should be added as they are wild populations that are established in many places throughout America. I'm not sure why they have been removed. If we're not going to have introduced populations that are living in the wild then this article needs to be titled "List of Pre-columbian mammals of North America" ;-) Flyingratchet (talk) 15:53, 31 May 2021 (UTC)

Guatemalan black howler and other additions

An editor keeps adding this primate. According to the article its does not live north of Mexico. Is there something I'm missing? Meters (talk) 03:16, 25 November 2014 (UTC)

This article always has been about mammals north of Mexico, however it covers this way only part of North America. But in my opinion addition of countless neotropical species from additional zoogeographical regions would enlarge it and change dramatically its character, make unclear. This list at this moment is very large. But I am almost new here. Darekk2 (talk) 06:54, 25 November 2014 (UTC)

And the same editor has now added Bush dog and Kinkajou, neither of which apparently lives north of Mexico. As with the Guatemalan black howler. these additions are unsourced. Meters (talk) 19:29, 25 November 2014 (UTC)

And an IP added Common opossum, also unsourced and apparently not known to live north of Mexico. Meters (talk) 19:31, 25 November 2014 (UTC)

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Formatting consistency between other North American taxa lists

I was thinking it could be a good idea to streamline the formatting between the other North American taxon lists (or even among all biological taxon lists on Wikipedia for that matter), as the formatting for the Amphibian, and Reptile lists for North America for instance are quite different. I'm not sure how a consensus would be reached or if there is some starting point for a defined standard however. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Flyingratchet (talk • contribs) 19:55, 7 September 2019 (UTC)

@Flyingratchet: It's a good idea, but it would be difficult. I've thought of starting a conversation about some standardized format at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Tree of Life, but I'm pessimistic about it working. There are tens of thousands of such lists. If you wanted to start with North America, that might work; maybe clean up one such list and propose that format as a standard and go from there. SchreiberBike | ⌨  20:30, 7 September 2019 (UTC)

Tigers, to start with

@Animalworlds314: I've looked into the reference provided for the presence of tigers in North America in the last 13,000 years. From page 21 of Jackson, Peter & Christie, Sarah (1999). Riding the Tiger, it says "Recently, Herrington (1987) identified some fossil big cats from eastern Beringia as tigers, but so far none has been recorded from North America." It doesn't explain why they are found in "eastern Beringia", which generally means Alaska and Yukon, but that they are not in North America. It also gives no time period. Herrington (1987) seems to be Herrington, S. (1987). "Subspecies and the conservation of Panthera tigris: Preserving genetic heterogeneity". In Tigers of the World: The Biology, Biopolitics, Management and Conservation of an Endangered Species. ed. Ronald Tilson & Ulysses Seal. That's not available online that I can find. I could request it through my library.

Other sources refer to the possibility of tigers in eastern Beringia as being around 100,000 years ago or in the Late Pleistocene, which Wikipedia gives as 11,700 to 129,000 years ago. A little overlap with our time period. I'd feel much more comfortable adding tigers to this list if we had a source saying they were here in the last 13,000 years and I haven't been able to find that.

What do others think? Thank you, SchreiberBike | ⌨  04:54, 28 November 2020 (UTC)

P.S. the reference given for yaks, http://www.consevol.org/pdf/Fox-Dobbs_2008_PgeogPclimPecol.pdf, gives no dates for their presence.

domestic horses and donkeys?

Hi everyone—I wanted to help contribute to this page but I'm pretty new to wiki article editing. Is there a reason why the domestic horse (Equus ferus caballus) and domestic donkey (aka burro—Equus africanus asinus) are not on this list? Both have extensive feral populations and even federal laws surrounding their existence (like the Wild and Free-Roaming Horses and Burros Act of 1971). It seems like a pretty obvious addition and I see some of the debate/discussion about other post-columbian mammal introductions so I didn't want to come in like a bull in a china shop.

List of mammals of North America north of Mexico

Hello ... Here is newly created
List of mammals of North America north of Mexico (made from parts of this article)
and discussion about its deletion:
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of mammals of North America north of Mexico
Maybe somebody would be interested. Darekk2 (talk) 08:06, 20 January 2023 (UTC)

@Darekk2 As per our discussion on the deletion log, I have devised a reorganization of this article to separate fauna from the two largely divergent biogeographical realms of the North American continent, the Nearctic and Neotropical realms. They are as follows~

a) Transitional species: the Mexican Transitional Zone is the semi-permeable membrane between both realms. The point of this section would be to showcase pan-continental species. Luckily in Mexico, it's a mostly a huge mountain range, which should hopefully limit the number of transitional species. Unluckily, the Everglades are in the Neotropical realm, so there may be a couple of Floridian species which are otherwise limited in range.

b) Nearctic realm: almost self explanatory, but Canada, Greenland, Saint-Pierre and Miquelon and Bermuda are wholly in this list. Also here is almost all of the continental US, and most of the Mexican highlands. Hawaii is in the Oceanian realm it's not covered here, and the US' Caribbean islands are in the...

c) Neotropical realm: covering other regions of Mexico, Central America, and the Caribbean.

d) Introduced species: self explanatory. I was originally thinking of extinct species, but as the Quaternary Extinction Event article exists, that scope is already covered.

Once it's completed, we can then review which version is better. What do you think? SuperTah (talk) 03:55, 25 January 2023 (UTC)

Potential citation- there are oceanic realms as well, but it may be safer to stick to temperate vs tropical species for now. Also, I should note that I am not against keeping extinctions that are deep in the Holocene (e.g. Hispaniolan edible rat). Additionally, I am seeing a lot of South America species, but this may be due to Trinidad and Tobago. If this is the reason why, we should note that in the small introduction of the section.

Alternatively, the list could be double columned like the List of birds of North America article to avoid a very long article format, or tabled to add more information. SuperTah (talk) 04:30, 25 January 2023 (UTC)

In this opinion this is making chaos. Moreover some species live in two realms. And borders between realms don't correspond to state borders, you would divide also systematic groups. Much better would marking species with country abbreviations, but number of countries is a little too large. Eventually you could create a series of new articles - lists of species of realms. In worst case mark species with abbreviations of realms. Today and perhaps tomorrow I am adding a little more species to this article and probably goodby, forever. Darekk2 (talk) 06:56, 25 January 2023 (UTC)

I pray that you don't go! I hope that this wasn't due to the "north of Mexico" article.

True on both accounts- some species live in both realms, and yes the groups would need to be duplicated if they're found in both realms. At least the first point would be covered by the 'transitional' section, but in saying that, just by scrolling through the species it does seem like the realms partition nicely beyond the big name animals. I agree that it's a bit unpredictable, but I'm hoping that by experimenting, we can find out if it looks good in practice. Perhaps a sortable table with noting which realm each species is from could be a toned down replacement.

Very grateful for any new additions you can add, and I'll give it a go once you've finished. SuperTah (talk) 08:27, 25 January 2023 (UTC)

They deleted List of mammals of North America north of Mexico (Articles for deletion). But even according to the United Nations Geoscheme: (and i. e. Geographic-Representation-Appendix_1.pdf) North America consists of such SUBREGIONS:

• Latin America and the Caribbean (Caribbean + Central America)
• Northern America (Bermuda, Canada, Greenland, Saint Pierre and Miquelon, United States of America)

What a mad hatred ... Darekk2 (talk) 08:22, 16 February 2023 (UTC)

Political divisions by international organisations are notoriously clumsy.

EPA: https://www.epa.gov/eco-research/ecoregions-north-america

Map from peer-reviewed paper: https://ecoregions.appspot.com/

As you haven't edited here in a while, I'll start re-organising the list. SuperTah (talk) 23:40, 20 February 2023 (UTC)

Land regions according to IUCN Red List:

• North America
• Mesoamerica
• Caribbean Islands

(www.iucnredlist.org/search) Darekk2 (talk) 06:09, 13 March 2023 (UTC)

Aruba, Bonaire, Curaçao and Trinidad and Tobago

Aruba, Bonaire, Curaçao and Trinidad and Tobago are listed in the List of sovereign states and dependent territories in North America (and here: North America#Countries, dependencies, and other territories), but they are located in South America. However it seems, that this list of mammals contains species occuring only in these teritories, maybe copied from the List of mammals of Trinidad and Tobago for example. At least these ones: Caluromys philander, Chiroderma trinitatum, Cyclopes didactylus, Dasyprocta leporina (but Introduced to Virgin Islands, U.S.), Gardnerycteris crenulatum (as Mimon crenulatum), Glossophaga soricina, Heteromys anomalus, Hylaeamys megacephalus, Lasiurus blossevillii (if not including L. L. frantzii ?), Lophostoma brasiliense, Makalata didelphoides, Marmosa murina, Mazama americana, Natalus tumidirostris, Necromys urichi, Nectomys palmipes, Oecomys speciosus, Platyrrhinus fusciventris, Proechimys trinitatis, Rhipidomys couesi, Tamandua tetradactyla, Uroderma bilobatum, Vampyrodes caraccioli. So far I marked them with "(Trinidad and Tobago)" Darekk2 (talk) 09:52, 29 January 2023 (UTC)