Talk:List of massacres in Kosovo

Glodjane massacre

Why do you call my edit an “embarrassment” Nado???

According to the Serbian Forensic team on the scene in 1998 (possibly the most pro-serb source out there) the bodies were a mix of Albanian, Serbian and Roma.

Here are the links:

1. http://balkanwitness.glypx.com/Racak-FET-summary2.htm (European Union Forensic team Altogether, 12 victims were identified; among these were seven Serbs, four ethnic Albanians and one Roma)

2. http://www.unhcr.org/refworld/country,,HRW,,SRB,,3ae6a83f4,0.html (Human Rights Watch) Footnote 124

3. http://books.google.com/books?id=LdWZrfsdqAEC&pg=PA311&lpg=PA311&dq=glodjane+serbian+forensic+team&source=bl&ots=UGxUiykxRN&sig=Xd8vV2TAXF0YQU08QkgTkYLX6i8&hl=en&sa=X&ei=IlMRUYeIPJLK9gTfvIH4CA&ved=0CFoQ6AEwBjgU#v=onepage&q=glodjane%20serbian%20forensic%20team&f=false p.3111 (Human Rights Watch)

4.Anthropological Data in Individualization of Skeletal Remains from a Forensic Context in Kosovo—A Case History, Marija P. Djuri ́ ,1 M.D., Ph.D. J Forensic Sci, May 2004, Vol. 49, No. 3 available online at: www.astm.org (Journal of Forensic Science)

“At the beginning of the Kosovo crisis, on September 8, 1998, during the conflict between the Serb security forces and the Kosovo Liberation Army, the police showed a group of journalists several corpses in an advanced state of decomposition; they had been found in a canal supplying water to Radonjicko Lake, in the region between the villages of Glodjane and Jablanica. On 9 September, the official investigation of the crimes near Glodjane began, and the forensic experts from the Medical Faculty in Belgrade performed the autop-sies and the identification of corpses. The team of three forensic pathologists and one anthropologist (also medically trained), working under the authority of the District Court in Pe ́ , found that the minimal number of individuals in the mass grave was 39. Twelve of them were positively identified using traditional means, e.g., correspondence of biological data with personal effects and/or documents. Seven of the victims were Serbs, one belonged to a Romany population, and four were Albanians.”

5. www.icty.org/cases/haradinaj|title=public indictment against Haradinaj para 38-39

“38. During the end of August and the beginning of September 1998, Serb forces mounted a counter-offensive and retook temporarily the area surrounding Glodjane/Gllogjan. A Serbian forensic crime scene team conducted an investigation in the vicinity of the canal leading to Lake Radonjic/Radoniq, the Ekonomija Farm in Rznic/Irzniq and the road leading to Dasinovac/Dashinovc.

39. On or about 12 September 1998, the team recovered at least 30 bodies or partial remains in the Radonjic/Radoniq Lake canal area, six bodies at Ekonomija Farm and at least three bodies on the road leading to Dasinovac/Dashinovc. The bodies and remains were forensically examined in temporary mortuary facilities in Dakovica /Gjakova. Several of these remains have been identified as those of Serb, Roma and Albanian civilians who disappeared between April and early September 1998 in the Dukagjin area.”

But I didn't cite those links in my last edit. I simply kept the existing reference and reported what it actually said without putting a nationalist Serb (or nationalist Albanian for that matter) POV on it. I took the time to read the source and report it accurately. Simply because these bodies weren't all Serbian doesn't make the underlying crimes less severe. The language that the source uses is important. It doesn't say “serb” because they weren't all Serbian. I've cited additional authority now.

Its not an “embarrassment” to accurately reflect a source. It is an embarrassment, however, and it does a disservice to the victims of these crimes to warp the ethnicity of those murdered to suit your personal agenda. It is a shame. You call my edits “embarrassing” or a “disguise.” They are neither. Whats more, I have seen the comments left on your page by another user (which you've since deleted). Its becoming increasingly clear to me what he was talking about. Hyper-nationalist POVs of any sort do a disservice to wikipedia.Epeos (talk) 19:13, 5 February 2013 (UTC)

Ongoing neutrality problems

It's unfortunate that our content on Kosovo still suffers from so much pov-pushing. We have a reliable source which says that, in the Gornje Obrinje Massacre, "Special police forces retaliated by killing twenty-one members of the Delijaj family", including women, adults, the elderly &c. The article text reframed this as "all the men of fighting age". So, I fixed it. Three different editors have reverted at different times - each time changing the text so it contradicts what the source says, and removing the source itself. Zetatrans Evlekis 23 editor. Why do the same editors keep on reverting attempts to bring Kosovo-related articles in line with what sources say? bobrayner (talk) 20:12, 7 April 2013 (UTC)

Perhaps you should ask yourself why it's only you that pushes for the other version. Examine your own revert, it seems to mess up more information than the small piece you aim to change. Evlekis (Евлекис) (argue) 20:25, 7 April 2013 (UTC)

There were four differences between revisions. I have restored three. The last (Prekaz) has a CNN source. Evlekis (Евлекис) (argue) 20:39, 7 April 2013 (UTC)

It's interesting that out of the many sources on the Prekaz article, you picked the one which favours "Yugoslav" over "Serb". That's deliberate cherrypicking. I have restored more neutral wording using a few more sources; no doubt it will get reverted again and again... bobrayner (talk) 22:08, 22 April 2013 (UTC)

And you didn't cherrypick the one that said "Serb" instead of "Yugoslav"? Please... 23 editor (talk) 22:17, 22 April 2013 (UTC)

Oh now I've heard it all, I am "picking what favours Yugoslav". Well I've got news for you Rayner, on here, we go by reliable sources and it is people like you that hail CNN as beautiful - not me. So if other sources contradict this by listing a separate faction then the way to report it is to explain that it is not clear exactly who did what, CNN says "XYZ" but the Guardian says "ABC", if anyone is "cherrypicking" it is he that replaces the sourced with the unsourced which favours him more. But please, let's stop being stupid here and face the reality - Rayner this will be difficult for you because truth is something you don't like to come to terms with, so I apologise in advance that what I am about to say will hurt you - you see, Serbia was in Yugoslavia during this time and there was only a Yugoslav army and that was all! So if you find a source to claim "Serb police" were involved then by all means add it then rewrite it to include what you have provided, but it is not as if the same source overrules what we have and that we should remove what is there. I mean, it is not as if Serb entities fought independently of central authorities, they represented the state even in other places where it was just paramilitaries. So why don't you stop trying to deny that FRY was a real country and face the facts that there was no "Serbian state" which is what you have been trying to imply on every Kosovo War subject. Evlekis (Евлекис) (argue) 01:19, 24 April 2013 (UTC)

Questionable sources

In the 'Serbian Victims' section, there are 2 particular massacres listed which I have to call into question. The 2 are the Orahovac massacre, and Gnjilane massacre. They use what appears to be a Serbian news site called B92, and given the bias of the site, I have to call into question the reliability of the site as a source. I especially have to do so when site also has disputed information on it. The citation given for the Gnjilane massacre is an article on B92 titled "Ex-KLAs sent to prison for 101 years". The final paragraph of the article says "To conceal their crimes, the killers dismembered the bodies and threw them into nearby dumpsters, and in Lake Livočko.", however this is disputed by this report from the Humanitarian Law Center. The last paragraph on the 64th page of that report states "The court did not give credence to any part of the testimony of cooperating witness ‘Božur 50’ 143, because he only stated facts that were common knowledge and he was not a member of the KLA, something confirmed by VBA, BIA and EULEX reports. The court was not even convinced whether this witness had ever been in the high school dormitory in Gnjilane/Gjilan. On the basis of the evidence presented, it was established that the bodies of the victims had not been postmortem mutilated, incinerated or thrown into the Lake Livočko, as was claimed by this witness. According to an EULEX report on the search of Lake Livočko, no human remains were found in the lake. That the bodies of victims were not mutilated and incinerated after death was corroborated by expert witness testimony."

I will be removing the massacres listed with bad sources unless I or anybody can find more reliable sources for them.

Nick3111997 (talk) 04:54, 7 October 2016 (UTC)Nick3111997

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External links modified

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Scope

The dubious bibliography and the fact that no article exists for pre-Kosovo War events means that they should all be removed. That suggests that the article should be renamed to List of massacres during the Kosovo War or List of attacks on civilians during the Kosovo War in order to include the largest site: the Batajnica mass graves.--Maleschreiber (talk) 01:23, 18 November 2020 (UTC)

Biased

The page seems heavily biased on both sides, for example many early massacres on Serbs in the Ottoman empire are based on Serbian sources, maybe it would be best if you supported these with neutral unbiased sources. QaifarShqiptari (talk) 19:37, 7 December 2022 (UTC)