Talk:Member states of the Commonwealth of Nations

Merge of the four similar lists

They all give basically the same info and were created before the sortable table was added to Wikipedia. The four should be merged here. -- Scorpion⁰⁴²² 16:33, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

• Support--Boson (talk) 22:52, 14 February 2008 (UTC)
• Support- Would make it easier to have within one article than several & in table format(s). That-Vela-Fella (talk) 21:08, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

Isle of Man, Jersey and Guernsey

Can someone please add an explanation of the status of the above? They compete at the Commonwealth Games, and they are not part of the UK, but they are apparently not members of the Commonwealth. Abberley2 (talk) 12:04, 26 November 2008 (UTC)

Well, as far as I can tell (and I'm not an expert on the definition of nation by any means), they are Crown dependencys, not independant nations. I don't think the article itself should contain an explanation, otherwise, it would have to explain why a lot of other nations are not a part either. -- Scorpion⁰⁴²² 12:24, 26 November 2008 (UTC)

Formal order

At the annual Remembrance Sunday service at the Cenotaph in the UK it's notable that the High Commissioners lay their wreaths in a strict order, with Canada, Australia, New Zealand and South Africa (in that order) always first, then a lot of the post war independence countries in roughly the order of independence and Mozambique always last. This appears to be a formal order, presumably based on when they first took membership (as shown by South Africa's high place, Mozambique at the end and also I think India places before Pakistan) - does anyone know if the list is online? It would be useful to have on this article. Timrollpickering (talk) 17:38, 12 December 2008 (UTC) WOMEN STOP IT. DONT DO IT —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.118.174.77 (talk) 21:56, 15 February 2011 (UTC)

Date of establishment of the Commonwealth

The List of Commonwealth Members gives 1931 (the date of the Statute of Westminster 1931) as the relevant date. Is this correct? I note that the preamble to the SofW states:

And whereas it is meet and proper to set out by way of preamble to this Act that, inasmuch as the Crown is the symbol of the free association of the members of the British Commonwealth of Nations, and as they are united by a common allegiance to the Crown, it would be in accord with the established constitutional position of all the members of the Commonwealth in relation to one another that any alteration in the law touching the Succession to the Throne or the Royal Style and Titles shall hereafter require the assent as well of the Parliaments of all the Dominions as of the Parliament of the United Kingdom:

The Anglo Irish Treaty of 1921 also referred to a "British Commonwealth of Nations" (ten years before the SofW).

So the preamble refers to an existing "Commonwealth" so I fail to see how it only came into existence in 1931. Regards. Redking7 (talk) 22:36, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

Because it was formed in 1931? Feel free to provide references to the contrary. The two references you cite both use the term in a looser, more poetic sense, as it had been used since the 19th century. However, the establishment of all the countries as equal partners, rather than subservient to the United Kingdom, dates to 1931. Before 1931, the countries did not have independent foreign policies; not being able to have independent foreign policies kinda makes it hard to have relations with one another through an international institution. Hence all authoritative sources giving it as that date. Bastin 01:55, 10 June 2009 (UTC)

Can't see it also being in 1921 with the example given above, but there was made mention of it when the Balfour Declaration of 1926 was done during the 1926 Imperial Conference. The Statute of Westminster 1931 just made it into law by the British Parliament in a legal format. So I would say 1926 is when it first was brought up & codified by 1931. That-Vela-Fella (talk) 05:14, 10 June 2009 (UTC)

Re "Because it was formed in 1931? Feel free to provide references to the contrary." Can you provide a source for that 1931 date - I have not said it was 1921 or any other date. I want to know what the correct date (if there is one) is;

RE The Statute of Westminster 1931 just made it into law by the British Parliament in a legal format. I suggest you look at the SoW - nowhere does it state that a British Commonwealth of Nations is hereby established etc. Indeed, as I note above, in its preamble it refers to tbe BCN as already existing.

Does any one have any information concerning the date the BCN was established?

Regards. Redking7 (talk) 06:33, 10 June 2009 (UTC)

There are several important dates for the institution's development. 1887; date of first colonial conference; 1926 Imperial Conference and Balfour Declaration which the UK and dominions agreed they are "equal in status, in no way subordinate one to another in any aspect of their domestic or external affairs, though united by common allegiance to the Crown, and freely associated as members of the British Commonwealth of Nations."; 1931 SoW giving legal status to previous agreement at the conferences; 1949 London Declaration, founding of modern Commonwealth with the admission of India and acceptance of monarch as head. We should not pick one, but list each as it defines the evolution and codification of the Commonwealth. But 1921, I do not know about.Gary Joseph (talk) 11:13, 10 June 2009 (UTC)

User Gary Joseph - Thats what I always thought was the case. Once can't point to one "founding date" for the Commonwealth. I will change the List of members of the Commonwealth of Nations to try to make it more accurate in this respect. Regards. Redking7 (talk) 18:52, 10 June 2009 (UTC)

I have no idea why a discussion about the list is taking place here, but the Commonwealth secretariat [1] gives 1931 as the joining date, and that's what the list will say until you provide some kind of official source that states otherwise. Although I somewhat disagree with this statement, wikipedia policy is that The threshold for inclusion in Wikipedia is verifiability, not truth. -- Scorpion⁰⁴²² 19:34, 10 June 2009 (UTC)

Re "I have no idea why a discussion about the list is taking place here" - Obvious reason. The other page is not visited much. Not many editors there to participate. Re the Commonwealth website...I can't find the 1931 reference there. Please can you paste it here. Thanks. Regards. Redking7 (talk) 21:23, 10 June 2009 (UTC)

But those who look after the list (ie. me) are unaware of the discussion if it is held here. You have to look at the individual profiles, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, South Africa. It doesn't give a date for when the UK joined (but that's really not surprising). -- Scorpion⁰⁴²² 21:32, 10 June 2009 (UTC)

Scorpion, that joining date you cite is an anomaly based on convenience. If they had simply put "founding member", that would have been consistent with history. The original dominions predate the founding of the modern institution. (This situation is unfolding similar to the disaster that resulted in the article for the American states and their joining dates.) Redking, the 1931 date is an important date in the founding and establishment of the Commonwealth, but it is not the only one. See [2]. Also, Scorpion, the Commonwealth is celebrating its 60th anniversary, that does not go back to 1931 or any date earlier. Let us not get stuck on fitting the information into a standard table and in the process lose the meaning of what happened. Unless of course Wikipedia has an rule against that too. Gary Joseph (talk) 23:05, 10 June 2009 (UTC)

I'm not smart enough to debate you point to point on Commonwealth history, so I'll have to take your word for it. The point is, wikipedia is based on verifiability. You say that the day those nations joined is different than what is listed at the Commonwealth's own website and that they are wrong? Okay, fair enough, but find an official source before changing it. Simply putting "founding member" member isn't good enough, I would like to have an official joining date in the table, otherwise it looks sloppy and incomplete. -- Scorpion⁰⁴²² 00:01, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

We are all smart enough to debate this. Besides, I was only trying to serve as mediator between you and Redking. I really could care less. But all is well ;).Gary Joseph (talk) 00:35, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

Fully agree (again) with Gary Joseph. Re the verifiability point, the same website says the Commonwealth is celebrating 60 years (not 78), the "1931" date you mention for Australia, NZ and Canada are not even consistent - 2 of the three give the date as "1931 (Statute of Westminster)"; the other simply as "1931" (We all know the significance of the inclusion of the words "(Statute of Westminster)" - it was a way of acknowledging that for the countries concerned, there was no simple "date of joining", their membership was a result of a gradual evolution; Therefore, no verifiability has been demonstated by pointing to the pages concerned; Similarly (unlike on the List page), no date of joining is given on the UK country profile either...a further argument that the inclusion of the 1931 date was simply for convenience and not grounded on any sound reading of history. Thinking it through logically, it would be a nonsense to suggest a country like the Irish Free State was not a member of the Commmonwealth in 1930 (when its politicians swore an oath of alleigance expressly referring to the British Commonwealth of Nations) but was a member the following year....The discussion could go on but really the 1931 date does not stack up. Regards. Redking7 (talk) 19:23, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

Yes, the term commonwealth was used for some time before that, but you have to remember that we are talking about the political entity called the Commonwealth of Nations. What is it you are proposing to do with the date joined column? -- Scorpion⁰⁴²² 19:30, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

If not 1931, then when? GoodDay (talk) 19:54, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

No references for dates other than 1931 means no change. You can have a supposedly 'intelligent' discussion, but Wikipedia has rules. When I get home from work, I'll be happy to direct you to a number of academic articles that make it clear that 1931 is the appropriate date. In any event, Australia and New Zealand were not original members, since they ratified the Statute of Westminster after the others, and thus, did not have control over foreign policy. Bastin 20:30, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

Redking, let it go. The problems are 1). there is obvious inconsistency of the information the Commonwealth Secretariat gives on its website ( an official source); 2). those wanting to complete the table do not care on resolving that inconsistency, but simply accepting the parts they want as a matter of convenience; 3). there is a persistent fallacy that there has only been ONE Commonwealth, and 4.) those attempting to complete the table are insistent on putting a DATE in the specific column. The latter point is interesting as the Commonwealth Secretariat does not list a "joining date" for the UK, and most historians don't list one either, but the Wikipedia table has a date nonetheless. I get so tired of people simply taking information, then regurgitating it back into a Wikipedia article without thinking about it. Emporis is a much cited source, but I am constantly finding mistake errors on that site and have on many occasions had the editors revise them. This is a case in point. But Redking, the resistance to resolving the inconsistency in a meaningful way and recognizing the different forms of the institution is obviously too strong. Let this "supposedly intelligent discussion" go. Best...Gary Joseph (talk) 00:30, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

I don't know if your second point is referring to me in a good way or bad way, but I would like to point out that I was against the specific dates being added because they aren't in the official website. -- Scorpion⁰⁴²² 00:57, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

Just FYI, Some mention was made here as well as first noted here. That-Vela-Fella (talk) 00:46, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

Re Gary Joseph - I guess you are "out". Thats your decision. I am still hoping for good faith and integrity so will press on for a bit.

Re the sources "That-Vela" points to, more of the same unfortunately - i.e. half-page type summaries on websites. Not sound sources.

Re Bastin "When I get home from work, I'll be happy to direct you to a number of academic articles that make it clear that 1931 is the appropriate date." Please do so. Thanks. Regards. Redking7 (talk) 05:19, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

I have copied and pasted the above to this page as an Administrator suggested that this discussion take place here. Regards. Redking7 (talk) 20:45, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

You told Juliancolton "The "dispute" is about the insistence of 1 or 2 editors on putting "joining dates" on the membership of the Commonwealth of countries like Canada. They do not provide proper sources for their edits." I would just like to note that I support removing the specific dates and switching to just listing the years as given by the Commonwealth Secretariat (and I tried doing so here), which would include removing a year for the UK. Would that be acceptable? -- Scorpion⁰⁴²² 21:01, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

British Overseas Territorys

should the BOTs be included in the list?

and I'd also like to put my support in for having the channel islands in the list too The C of E (talk) 10:58, 18 October 2009 (UTC)

No, because they're not members of the Commonwealth. The Commonwealth consists of these sovereign members, and none other. Bastin 12:37, 18 October 2009 (UTC)

Did Ireland "leave" or was it "excluded"

Let's challenge "conventional wisdom" here...Is there any evidence that Ireland withdrew from the Commonwealth like Zimbabwe did? No. I don't think there is. I think its much fairer to say that Ireland was excluded fromthe BCN because the other members were not happy (at that particular time) for republics to be in...I am not disagreeing that Ireland wanted to leave any way...but its just not quite accurate to say Ireland "left"...It never notified the BCN to say, with effect from such and such date, we are "leaving" or "withdrawing" from the BCN. It mad a decision that by virtue of the BCN's rules at the time meant it was to be excluded? What do others think. Try not to be too policitical please! Thanks. 84.203.77.232 (talk) 21:25, 7 June 2011 (UTC)

Ireland left the Commonwealth, as explained here. Please don't introduce a novel 'spin' on a straightforward historical event. RashersTierney (talk) 07:06, 8 June 2011 (UTC)

This membership rules about having the Monarch as head of state were amended many years ago and the requirement to have had a past link to the UK has been dropped hence why Mozambique and Rwanda have joined. Ireland could rejoin the Commonweath if they wished to and they would be welcomed back. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.163.207.72 (talk) 19:37, 5 June 2012 (UTC)

Rwanda

Anybody notice the reference for Rwanda (i.e. British Commonwealth)? Smelling-salts for Mies. GoodDay (talk) 21:32, 29 November 2009 (UTC)

Has South Sudan formally applied for membership?

I have read an article, http://insidethegames.biz/olympics/summer-olympics/2012/13536-south-sudan-faces-race-against-time-to-make-it-to-start-line-for-london-2012, that states that the new country of South Sudan will make an application to join the Commonwealth. Before we add a new section, called "Proposed New Members", I would like to confirm this? user:mnw2000 20:47, 10 July 2011 (UTC)

GDP list

Is there any interest in adding a list by GDP or adding an additional column or something of the like? Krazytea(talk) 04:24, 14 April 2012 (UTC)

Was that noteworthy?

So Algeria got invaded by Britain in 1942(ish). Before then, they were playing ball with the Germans. The Benelux countries were invaded for by Britain for the sole purpose of chasing out the Germans. Britain also invaded Sicily for that purpose a few months earlier for the same reason. How is Algeria noteworthy for having been invaded....before they existed as a country? I was actually here for asking when Nepal left the Commonwealth. --82.134.28.194 (talk) 11:18, 15 October 2013 (UTC)

Malaysia

The sortable table includes the date of Malaysia joining the Commonwealth as 1957, the date that Malaya joined. However, it is sorted as joining in 1963, the date that Malaysia was formed. Which date was it intended to be listed under? Skinsmoke (talk) 06:58, 21 December 2013 (UTC)

The sources lists them as 1957, so that's probably what we should use. TDL (talk) 15:46, 21 December 2013 (UTC)

The Irish Problem

I have undone the change by 46.11.54.145 from "withdrew" to "expelled" since the Commonwealth website clearly states, "No country has formally been expelled". It may be that other editors have citable evidence that Ireland was expelled rather than withdrawing of her own accord.

The two refs in that paragraphs were also dead, so I have linked them to the Commonwealth site; given the titles of the refs as they were, this seems to be where they were supposed to be linking originally but was returning a #404 error. Misha An interested observer of this and that 11:14, 15 October 2016 (UTC)

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Gambia

Gambia return. [3] --Atamari (talk) 09:29, 24 July 2017 (UTC)

WHAT RIGHTS AND PRIVILEGES DO MEMBERS HAVE?

What common rights and privileges do all the nationals of the member states have? For example, do they have British Commonwealth citizenship and immigration privileges? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 172.103.220.132 (talk) 02:23, 2 August 2017 (UTC)

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People's Revolutionary Government

Where would the PRG go since on the article it says “ The People's Revolutionary Government (PRG) was proclaimed on 13 March 1979 after the Marxist–Leninist New Jewel Movement overthrew the government of Grenada in a revolution, making Grenada the only Communist state within the Commonwealth.” Bvcitizen (talk) 18:31, 4 May 2021 (UTC)

@Bvcitizen: You can add it on the Notes cell of Grenada on the "Current members" table. I'm not sure if its noteworthy though, since that cell is used for noting about the original name of the country when it joined, as well as withdrawals and other membership statuses. pandakekok9 (talk) 03:31, 5 May 2021 (UTC)

Idk I’m not a very good editor I was hoping someone else would do something or tell me no but I’ll leave it for someone else to do. Bvcitizen (talk) 03:54, 5 May 2021 (UTC)

@Bvcitizen: You can use the VisualEditor to easily edit the table. You don't have to deal with table wikicode, which is understandably hard to work with. I prefer letting others do the edits they want rather than me doing it, because I don't want them to miss out a good learning experience. pandakekok9 (talk) 07:47, 5 May 2021 (UTC)

Barbados is NOT a former member, Wikipedia!

Here's a source that says that Barbados is still a member of the Commonwealth as of the date of this comment and for the foreseeable future:

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/barbados-elizabeth-british-empire-republic-180979147/

Here's another one:

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-59470843

Here's another one:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/barbados-republic-commonwealth-queen-b1966940.html

Furthermore, neither of the sources cited to support the contention that Barbados is a former Commonwealth Member even HAVE the word "Commonwealth" in them, which proves the manifest bad faith and malicious intent of the person who made that edit: the three sources I posted above were merely the first thee sources my search found. In other words, to use as footnotes, in support of a bogus contention that Barbados has left or is leaving the Commonwealth, references to articles on this new Republic that do NOT mention the fact that Barbados is NOT leaving the Commonwealth, requires a great deal of sifting for such editor to do. Dozens and dozens of articles that state that Barbados is remaining in the Commonwealth must be bypassed to find two that don't mention the Commonwealth at all, only the transition to Republic, and then PRETEND that changing to a Republic is the same thing as leaving the Commonwealth. This very article makes it plain that the Commonwealth includes Republics and Monarchies in which the current Monarch (and the future succession from the current Monarch) is not aligned with the Monarchy of the United Kingdom. ALSO, the date for Barbados "leaving" the Commonwealth (which hasn't happened) is "286,618". Please clarify the Calendar being used.

I respectfully request that sanctions be levied against the so-called "editor" who has made this blatantly false assertion that Barbados is a "former" Member of the Commonwealth, and I respectfully request that ALL of their edits in EVERY article they have ever edited be reviewed for equally blatant lying. (You know, when a cop goes bad, you do not merely free the latest wrongfully-accused victim, but, rather, you go over the cop's entire career to see which of the cop's ages-old arrests were frame-ups or refused attempts to extort bribes.)2600:8804:8800:11F:1C64:8308:33BC:E2D6 (talk) 07:49, 3 December 2021 (UTC)Christopher L. Simpson

54 or 53?

Though the article states that there are 54 states in the Commonwealth of Nations, the commonwealth main website says 53. Also, I thought The Gambia had withdrawn from the commonwealth. https://www.commonwealthofnations.org/commonwealth/commonwealth-membership/withdrawals-and-suspension/ https://www.commonwealthofnations.org/ Aythya affinis (talk) 15:02, 9 February 2022 (UTC)

There are 54 at the official website: https://thecommonwealth.org/our-member-countries. DrKay (talk) 16:15, 9 February 2022 (UTC)

The Gambia rejoined in February 2018. The application was "unanimously accepted by all 52 member states". DuncanHill (talk) 16:21, 9 February 2022 (UTC)

Yes, there were 52 in 2017, 53 in 2018 and Maldives (re)joined in 2020 bringing it to 54. DrKay (talk) 18:30, 9 February 2022 (UTC)

Sort by date joined working incorrectly

The sort by ‘date joined’ function is working incorrectly. 86.26.106.107 (talk) 18:12, 6 May 2023 (UTC)

Gabon and Togo

As of 2022, Gabon and Togo are members. Humpster (talk) 05:56, 18 March 2024 (UTC)

These are already in the article. CMD (talk) 06:28, 18 March 2024 (UTC)