Talk:List of members of the European Parliament (2024–2029)

List of Italian MEPs

Hello everyone! Just so you know, I'm working on a draft for the official list of the Italian MEPs: the final results haven't been published yet, because apparently the local electronic systems in Rome decided to just crash completely, and so officers had to start counting the votes from almost the whole city all over again.

Still, most of the seats have already been secured, and the biggest dilemmas involve candidates who have been elected in multiple constituencies, so the list I've compiled is pretty much reliable. I still have to fill some information in the gaps for each candidate, but you can start adding the table to this page, if you'd like to! Oltrepier (talk) 09:26, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

@PLATEL, Dajasj, Cassandro, and Moondragon21: I forgot to tag some of the people who might be interested, whoops... Oltrepier (talk) 09:30, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

On another note, it might be worth merging "Elected" and "Current" columns to one column, by using rowspan. See List of members of the European Parliament for the Netherlands, 2019–2024. There is less duplication and also less color, and if there are multiple switches you can also see that. Dajasj (talk) 09:40, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

@Dajasj Thank you for the suggestion! So, in that case, we'll duplicate rows, rather than columns, in order to reflect party switches, right? Oltrepier (talk) 10:05, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

Yes, but by merging the cells between rows, nothing should have to be duplicated! Dajasj (talk) 10:17, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

Maybe I understand something wrong here but how will the suggested way show so-called open list candidates who are not members of given party but are affiliated to it? (e. g. Carola Rackete or Bernard Guetta) Cassandro (talk) 11:13, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

@Cassandro In those cases, I guess we could just add a basic note stating they're independent candidates, or affiliated to minor parties who have linked up with major ones (in Italy, Marco Tarquinio is a good example of this last situation). Oltrepier (talk) 11:59, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

@Cassandro @Dajasj It definitely took a long time, but the list of Italian MEPs is finally live! I hope I've done a decent enough job with it... Oltrepier (talk) 10:06, 7 July 2024 (UTC)

Hi @Oltrepier, it looks nice! I have a few suggestions, but feel free to disregard them:

• I would leave out the "Reason" column. Some of the info is already covered here, while other information can be covered in the Notes (which is already done).
• I would leave out Birth date. It feels weird to focus on this specific property, while not - for example - including gender. And if you include too many properties, the table gets too big.
• I would merge all table and include a column for EP-group, like I have done in the Dutch example. This is particularly relevant because right now you can't get a table overview with all MEPs for a specific constituency, only for MEPs of a specific party in a specific constituency
• The references column can be made unsortable
• At least in the Netherlands, it is convention to sort by last name. Might be usefull for the MEP column
• Personally, I would make the first column the MEPs, not the constituency, because the list focuses on MEPs.

Dajasj (talk) 15:31, 7 July 2024 (UTC)

@Dajasj Thank you for your tips!

The thing is, I actually wanted to create a single table in the first place, but since I had struggled a lot to edit this page, given its weight (currently, it's still over 376,000 bytes!), I was afraid of having a similarly hard time while correcting my own draft.

Now, though, I agree that merging all of the tables would be the best solution, and I'll try to incorporate some of your other suggestions, too! Oltrepier (talk) 17:40, 7 July 2024 (UTC)

I see! But then another question is, do we need both this page and seperate lists per country? Or should we transclude the seperate pages in this one (which I would prefer). Dajasj (talk) 19:49, 7 July 2024 (UTC)

@Dajasj Well, I guess transcluding the single pages into this list is the best option, since we would make it much lighter without discarding too many bits of information... Oltrepier (talk) 08:21, 8 July 2024 (UTC)

And without duplicating our efforts ;) Dajasj (talk) 08:30, 8 July 2024 (UTC)

@Dajasj I've just finished cleaning up my article and integrating your suggestions: now it should look better!

On a side note, it's more and more likely that the MEPs from Lega will switch from ID to Patriots for Europe; if, and when it's going to happen, I guess I can just change their EP Group without adding other notes, since the Parliament still hasn't held its first official meeting... right? Oltrepier (talk) 12:41, 8 July 2024 (UTC)

Yeah, as is also discussed below, it is best to start with the inauguration. Btw, list looks better now! Reason column is still not my thing, but feel free to keep it :) Dajasj (talk) 12:43, 8 July 2024 (UTC)

Sorry for disrupting here but let me have a little objection. Transclusion is fine (the list is too big now, so that is okay) but I would keep the table format as it is due to the fact that we can be sure that many changes (either in group membership or in who is an MEP) will occur which this table could cover better imo. I am also fine with having the MEPs in alphabetic order and not by the strengh of the given delegation as a default. Notes/Refs should stay as columns as many MEPs got their seats by others not taking it, that should be shown here. Also the begin date should reflect that many MEPs are there longer than this beginning term, this is imo a useful information in the tables. Cassandro (talk) 23:50, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

What if a person switches party or group 3 times? That's something the current table won't be able to handle. It also makes the table unnecessarily wide with a lot of duplication. Notes on who got the seat how or who was first on the list, isn't really that relevant to warrant a wide column. Begin date before this term is problematic, because it suggests you'll also show all parties and groups before that time. Dajasj (talk) 06:51, 15 July 2024 (UTC)

It looks like that we have a philosophical difference what such tables should include. For me, I don't see the point to having a blank list without any contextual information shown in it. This list shouldn't be just a wiki-coded copy of the homepage of the EP (sorry for the strong-sounding wording here). Also, as there is no separate seniority list for MEPs (as there is no given function like the Father/Mother of the House in the UK), I think it is still worth noting when the actual term of given MEP began. Cassandro (talk) 08:55, 15 July 2024 (UTC)

Well the added value is that you can see an overview, sort, and go to the page of the person if you want more context. You can't provide all the context someone might want in a table without making it chaotic. It's a bit arbitrary for example to include birth date, but not gender or etnicity, all of which can be relevant. If you're going for seniority, it's worth noting that the current method excludes any breaks in membership before (or even within?) the term. And like I said, it becomes weird what to fill in in 'Initial group' if it's from previous term. I also haven't heard how you would adress multiple switches of parties or groups? And if you want a list of longest service members (ever), then create such a list ;) Dajasj (talk) 09:05, 15 July 2024 (UTC)

We still have not solved this issue, while new pages are being created with yet another style. Resulting in extra work. Can we agree to transclude? And would we have to agree on a specific style? Dajasj (talk) 12:42, 27 August 2024 (UTC)

Elected but did not take seat

Adding a point here: I think it should be shown if people were elected but did not take their seats, even if as a note to given MEP who got the seat instead. It is valuable information I think, also in regard of the previous topic (Italian MEPs). Cassandro (talk) 11:15, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

@Cassandro I agree! On a side note, it should be said that the Italian elections mostly reflect a (very bad) habit by national party leaders, which is running for the seat themselves, in order to take advantage of their popularity and give their lists a vote boost, despite knowing they won't be able to serve in the role in the first place... Oltrepier (talk) 12:04, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

Sure but there are other countries where party leaders put themselves as list leader for boosting given list but already tell that they stay home (e. g. Croatia or Hungary). Cassandro (talk) 14:36, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

@Cassandro That's true... Oltrepier (talk) 16:45, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

Initial Group

For Initial Group, should we take this to be the group a member is in at the time of election or on July 16th (First meeting of the Parliament)? New guy editor (talk) 13:35, 30 June 2024 (UTC)

I would say at inauguration. @Oltrepier: what do you think? Cassandro (talk) 17:12, 5 July 2024 (UTC)

@Cassandro Sorry for reading this just now...

I actually think it's fine to take the time of the election as a reference! Oltrepier (talk) 10:05, 7 July 2024 (UTC)

Support Braganza (talk) 17:21, 7 July 2024 (UTC)

The same would apply to national parties, right? Because I see a lot of changes between "Initial" and "Current", even before the term started. So that makes no sense. Dajasj (talk) 09:47, 15 July 2024 (UTC)

How it's currently on the EP website, the initial party is either GroenLinks or PvdA, not GroenLinks-PvdA in the Netherlands. Dajasj (talk) 09:06, 16 July 2024 (UTC)

we go after the list they were elected on Braganza (talk) 11:52, 24 July 2024 (UTC)

Sections

If we want to make this list useful for mobile users, it might be worth moving the country-sections to first-level sections. So it becomes something to navigate on mobile Dajasj (talk) 09:08, 15 July 2024 (UTC)

Colour Inconsistencies

The ESN is consistently shown as a cyan or black, yet in the head of this article, and only in the head, not in any subsection, brown is used. Any reason for this? JustAPoliticsNerd (talk) 15:33, 16 July 2024 (UTC)