Talk:List of missile wings of the United States Air Force

Inclusion.

This list is both overinclusive (it lists squadrons that were not assigned to missile wings) and underinclusive (it does not list either the 700 series wings nor the MAJCON wings in the 4000-4400 block of numbers).--Lineagegeek (talk) 15:45, 28 August 2012 (UTC)

needs major rewrite

unreferenced, unencyclopedic language and full of repeat wiki links.--Wuerzele (talk) 04:15, 9 December 2014 (UTC)

Silos controlled

I removed the following sentence, which was added a day ago:

Missile wings control about 150 silos. Each wing may be organized into up to 15 squadrons which would control 10 silos each.

The number of missiles controlled is generally true for today's Minuteman missile wings, but the article is about wings assigned to Strategic Air Command, not today's wings. That number varies from 0 to 200 (early missiles were not installed in silos) and includes Snark, Titan and Atlas missiles. Particularly in view of the remainer of the quote, I doubt this web site can be regarded as a reliable source. I know of no missile wing that had more than 4 operational squadrons. (see Ravenstein, Charles A. (1984). Air Force Combat Wings, Lineage & Honors Histories 1947-1977 (PDF). Washington, DC: Office of Air Force History. ISBN 0-912799-12-9. Retrieved December 17, 2016. for Strategic Missile Wings and their operational components). Even if the maintenance squadrons and the squadrons assigned to the wing's combat support group (if it had one), and the few wings with missile security groups were added on (and none of those "controll[ed] 10 silos") it would be hard to get over 12 squadrons in the largest wing. --Lineagegeek (talk) 17:07, 26 December 2016 (UTC)

Removing acronym from title

Dear Lineagegeek can this page have its scope widened properly to all Strategic Missile Wings to avoid the USAF acronym in the title, with a move something like "List of Strategic Missile Wings of the United States Air Force?" Buckshot06 (talk) 03:28, 2 June 2022 (UTC)

Buckshot06 Sounds like a much better title to me. There were no USAF Strategic Missile Wings not assigned to SAC. However, it strikes me that this article is a little narrow for an encyclopedia. Perhaps the article should be made more inclusive as List of Missile Wings of the United States Air Force and include Tactical Missile Wings (Matador, Mace and GLCM); the 4751st Air Defense Missile Wing (BOMARC) and the couple of test and development wings (various). --Lineagegeek (talk) 23:03, 2 June 2022 (UTC)

That widening is up to you. Would you be prepared to add the additional content? You're our expert on this field. Otherwise would just go for something that decreases the overemphasis on SAC rather than the USAF as a whole (and avoids acronyms in a title). Buckshot06 (talk) 23:08, 2 June 2022 (UTC)

Yes. Even with the current content, I see my 2012 comments have been ignored. On the other hand, the change is major, and comments from others are needed. --Lineagegeek (talk) 23:41, 2 June 2022 (UTC)

I disagree that comments from others are needed on this super-super-super-super niche specialist page which probably gets hardly any views. I would encourage you to go ahead and be WP:BOLD, especially because no information will be *removed,* only *verified,* *checked,* and *added.* Buckshot06 (talk) 00:05, 3 June 2022 (UTC)

Buckshot06 If the change were only to the name and limiting the list to what its title says it is (contradicted in the first sentence of the lead by "This is a list of the three generations of intercontinental ballistic missiles (ICBMs) produced and deployed by the United States during the Cold War, with a fourth generation ICBM deployed in small numbers at the end of the Cold War in 1991.") I would agree, but I do not agree if the article is changed to include missile wings in general. The principles of the limited change should also be applied to List of USAF Bomb Wings and Wings assigned to Strategic Air Command (even worse than this "wings"?); List of USAF Strategic Wings assigned to the Strategic Air Command (an easy move to List of United States Air Force strategic wings -- no other command had strategic wings); List of USAF Fighter Wings assigned to Strategic Air Command (omits federalized ANG wings); List of USAF Reconnaissance wings assigned to Strategic Air Command; List of USAF Air Base Wings assigned to Strategic Air Command (really bad, it's a redirect to List of MAJCOM wings of the United States Air Force and should be deleted); List of USAF Troop Carrier Wings assigned to Strategic Air Command (worst of all, it's a redirect to 456th Bombardment Wing, which was never assigned to SAC as a troop carrier unit. Needs speedy deletion) All these pages were created by R. E. Mixer and Wuerzele and Mr Moll appear to have made substantive changes to the page. In theat case the name should be either List of strategic missile wings of the United States Air Force or List of intercontinental missile wings of the United States Air Force (closer to what the article actually covers) for WP:MOS.

I fought with R. E. Mixer/71.51.90.0 then (2007ish) about some of his absurd article arrangements; I tried to Prod the air base wings article; and I endorse any reasonable larger scheme of reorganisation you might consider, consistent with the below decision(s). Be bold. Buckshot06 (talk) 22:26, 5 June 2022 (UTC)

On the other hand, if we list all missile wings, I think comments on both the move and style are called for:

• Should it be in tabular form, like almost all other list articles?

Support mildly. --Lineagegeek (talk) 21:53, 5 June 2022 (UTC)

• Should it be organized by numerical designation of the unit, like almost all other list articles? (thus: 38th Tactical Missile Wing, then 44th Missile Wing, 90th Missile Wing

Oppose --Lineagegeek (talk) 21:53, 5 June 2022 (UTC)

• Or, should it be organized by weapons system (thus: TM-61 Matador 38th Tactical Missile Wing, then SM-62 Snark 702nd Strategic Missile Wing

Support --Lineagegeek (talk) 21:53, 5 June 2022 (UTC)

--Lineagegeek (talk) 21:53, 5 June 2022 (UTC)

You're the expert, you carefully follow Wiki conventions, I am double-checking your work, I suggest you go with what you think best. Buckshot06 (talk) 22:26, 5 June 2022 (UTC)

• Looks like I missed List of USAF Air Refueling Wings assigned to Strategic Air Command, which also redirects to the MAJCOM wing list. Even worse than the air base wing redirect, since SAC replaced its MAJCON air refueling wings with AFON [AFCON talk page stalker] wings in 1963. The strategic wing list is moved and inappropriate redirects nominated for elimination. Lineagegeek (talk) 15:43, 6 June 2022 (UTC)
  • Dear Lineagegeek thank you for clearly getting started on this Augean stable. Can see you've started with the air refueling wings. However, R.E. Mixer did get one thing right: our syntax for titles. Should for preference be in the form 'Air refueling wings of the United States Air Force' when you move or set up new pages. This is to avoid any implication or mistaken impression, even if very slight, that such a wing might be formally designated the 109th United States Air Force Air Refueling Wing. Cheers, do ask for help or a second read if you wish. Buckshot06 (talk) 22:33, 6 June 2022 (UTC)

• The normal period for comments (one week) having elapsed without opposing comment, and without opposition, I'll go ahead with the move. Lineagegeek (talk) 23:16, 10 June 2022 (UTC)

Deletion

I have nominated List of USAF Troop Carrier Wings assigned to Strategic Air Command and List of USAF Air Base Wings assigned to Strategic Air Command for deletion. Not only are the redirects inappropriate, they contain either no units or one unit meeting the criteria, which hardly maes a list. --Lineagegeek (talk) 00:20, 6 June 2022 (UTC)

Grand. But for redirects, do not use WP:AfD. WP:RFD is a simplified process. Buckshot06 (talk) 02:19, 6 June 2022 (UTC)

Didn't know that page existed. But looking at the backlog there, I think I'll let things stand --Lineagegeek (talk) 23:10, 10 June 2022 (UTC)