Talk:List of operettas by Jacques Offenbach/Archive 1

Archive 1

Conversion to table

I'd appreciate help in converting this into a table. I've done the first section. It's a long, tedious job though clever use of a word processor can help . . . Thanks. --Kleinzach 01:14, 31 October 2008 (UTC)

Image copyright problem with Image:Visuel perichole.jpg

The image Image:Visuel perichole.jpg is used in this article under a claim of fair use, but it does not have an adequate explanation for why it meets the requirements for such images when used here. In particular, for each page the image is used on, it must have an explanation linking to that page which explains why it needs to be used on that page. Please check

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This is an automated notice by FairuseBot. For assistance on the image use policy, see Wikipedia:Media copyright questions. --06:26, 4 November 2008 (UTC)

OK. I've removed the image. --Kleinzach 00:15, 5 November 2008 (UTC)

Possible errors on this page...

I've mentioned this on WP before, but I own the book, The De Capo Catalog of Classical Music Compositions (ISBN 030679666X). I went though the detailed process of comparing the list on this page with the that in the book, and found some discrepencies:

-First off, by my count there are 101 separately named works here, however two of those are revisions of older works -- thus I assume the 99 figure.

In my book:

-Whittington is listed under ballets, but specifically calls it a "4 act Feerie (ballet-pantomime)".

See opéra féerie for an explanation of this genre. The entry is apparently correct. --Kleinzach 22:51, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

-La Duchesse d'Albe is listed as a project (meaning no music was written).

No, there is a manuscript in Cologne, also a libretto. --Kleinzach 22:56, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

-La baguette (Fédia), Blanche, Le décaméron, ou La grotte d'azur, and Trafalgar – Sur un volcan are not listed at all that I can tell, though I only went through stage works (they could be under songs or something)

They are all listed. --Kleinzach 22:58, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

-Un Postillon en Gage uses 'Le' instead of 'Un'. Similarly, Le Mari a La porte uses 'Un' instead of 'Le'. I dunno French enough to know if this is an issue.

The list is correct per Lamb/Grove. --Kleinzach 23:01, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

-Both Le Financier et Le Savetier and Fleurette, oder Trompeter und Näherin have their nouns between the conjunction reversed. I doubt this matters, though.

These are correct per Lamb/Grove. --Kleinzach 23:09, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

-Speaking of Fleurette, it does not give that name at all, just the German one.

Fleurette was the original composition in 1863. I've clarified that. --Kleinzach 23:10, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

-Les Fees du Rhin is given as Die Rheinnixen, with the former name as an alternate. I imagine this is a matter of consistency here, but I'm pretty sure I've seen it as Die Rheinnixen more. Also, I'm almost sure this one is actually an opera and not an operetta -- I remember reading this specifically when I came across the recording. The book calls it a romantic opera (as does the list), and I'd think should be taken out of this as Hoffmann isn't here.

I've corrected the entry. The work was an opéra. I have my doubts as to whether this was a full-blown opera and hence should be listed with Hoffmann. We need to check this further. The MS is apparently in Frankfurt. --Kleinzach 23:25, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

-It claims that Offenbach only wrote a single number, a waltz, for Tarte a La Creme though doesn't mention who wrote the rest.

That's exactly what the list says: Valse (French for waltz) 1 act. --Kleinzach 23:27, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

-La leçon de chant électromagnétique is missing the last word. Again, I imagine this doesn't matter much, but it's worth noting.

? It's all there, isn't it? What is missing? --Kleinzach 23:30, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

-And finally, my list contains five works which seem to be missing from this one: Elodie ou Le Forfait Nocturne, Aimons Notre Prochain, Die Kindsmadchen, Psychic Force, and Cigarette. Now Aimons is said to be an adaptation of Entrez, Messieurs, Mesdames, but the others are unaccounted for. Any of these match up with the missing ones above?

Offenbach contributed to Elodie ou Le forfait nocturne but the work is not by him. I don't have anything on the other ones. Pastiches? Psychic Force is presumably English. --Kleinzach 23:40, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

Incidentally, I think this should be turned into a full works list. Regaurdless of what the main Offenbach page doesn't say (it's pretty bad), he wrote quite a bunch of non-operatic music, including much chamber music (mostly for cello(s)), well over 100 songs, a bunch of orchestral works including a cello concerto, a not-trivial amount of piano music, and a few choral works. ♫ Melodia Chaconne ♫ (talk) 21:34, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

It would be good to start listing miscellaneous works here. Compiling them may be difficult but I agree it would be worthwhile. (Later it could be turned into a standard 'Compositions by . . .' list). --Kleinzach 23:57, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

The list is based on Andrew Lamb (in Grove), who is authoritative, but it is possible that they are errors. I will check Grove on the works you mention. In the case of alternate names, the one used for the premiere is normally given. Also I think Lamb (understandably) excludes pastiches. Please note that we are using French capitalization as explained on the Opera Project (see here).

You have queried a large number of items. Can you number them so it is easier to refer to them? --Kleinzach 22:37, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

You may want to read exactly what I wrote once more instead of just brazenly dismissing what I wrote as incorrect because one source lists soemthing. The information in my list was published in 1996, and says he consulted a pair of books from 1980. Obviously more recent info won't be there, but just saying "Grove says this so it's right" is really not helpful. As for capitalization, I use my own for my own purposes so that's where so errors came from, and certainly wouldn't change the article incorrectly. ♫ Melodia Chaconne ♫ (talk) 23:10, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

I'm spending my time going through each one of your points, so no temper tantrums please. Andrew Lamb is an expert, though other editors have worked on this list so errors may have crept into it. Allow me to finish my checking, please. --Kleinzach 23:35, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

OK. A bit of a wild goose chase. No errors but we should have another look at Die Rheinnixen (Les fées du Rhin) and see how it fits into the picture. Might even be worth an article if we can get enough information. Thank you for bringing my attention to it. --Kleinzach 23:47, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

I've now written an article on Die Rheinnixen. It's a real opera so I've moved it off the list here. --Kleinzach 07:11, 19 November 2009 (UTC)