Talk:List of photographs considered the most important/Archive 1

Archive 1

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Genre

Hi, Something is wrong with the genre. How could refugees, disasters, and construction workers could be in the same category as Jayne Mansfield-Sophia Loren photo and Tennis Girl? I suggest making a new category "Celebrities and Fashion". Regards, Yann (talk) 15:43, 30 July 2018 (UTC)

Missing pictures

Hi, Here are some obvious omissions. Yann (talk) 10:51, 30 July 2018 (UTC)

1. Two pictures from the Apollo program are mentioned, but none of Apollo 11? Weird. Actually the most iconic may be File:Apollo 11 bootprint.jpg.
2. No picture of Marilyn Monroe? I am not sure which one is the more iconic: [1] or [2]
3. File:Einstein tongue.jpg
4. Henri Cartier-Bresson | Man Jumping the Puddle | 1930
5. Yousuf Karsh's iconic photo, Winston Churchill | 1941
6. The Twin Towers in Fire
7. Princess Diana?
8. Martin Luther King
9. Earthquake in Japan: [3]?
10. Berlin Wall?
11. Child in textile factory
12. Atomic bomb (probably Nagasaki)
13. Munich Massacre, Kurt Strumpf, 1972

I'd add this photo from the Kent State shootings:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kent_State_shootings#/media/File:Kent_State_massacre.jpg99.14.151.89 (talk) 03:36, 29 November 2018 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure Bliss (image) is also a pretty good candidate to be added, just based on sheer exposure alone. (Also, user above forgot to indent his reply, fixed that) 73.161.63.150 (talk) 00:08, 8 February 2022 (UTC)

Lenna is an obvious omission. SteveBaker (talk) 22:22, 27 May 2022 (UTC)

Origin of this article

This article was created following the discussion at Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2017 July 7#Category:Subjects of iconic photographs. The discussion was unsatisfactory in that it was assumed that all the photographs were of people and so renamed it Category:People notable for being the subject of a specific photograph. Someone then removed all the photos that were not portraits. Fortunately, I had kept a printout before these removals. Note: this is a list of articles about "iconic" photos (or articles about topics notable for having a notable photograph of them). It is not strictly a list of iconic photos. Articles about iconic photos that do not display the photo have not been included. Thincat (talk) 21:27, 24 August 2017 (UTC)

Dogs attacking protester in Birmingham, Alabama, 1963

Does File:Birmingham campaign dogs.jpg from Bill Hudson (photographer) qualify? (Hohum ^@) 15:31, 2 March 2018 (UTC)

Too much US centered

Hi, This list is too much US centered. There are many more iconic pictures from other places not mentioned here. I am going to add a few. Regards, Yann (talk) 10:01, 30 July 2018 (UTC)

James Webb

The first photo of James Webb telescope should be on this list too. 2600:1700:6800:71F0:D5C7:5571:3934:2091 (talk) 04:46, 14 July 2022 (UTC)

Only photos that meet the inclusion criteria can be included: "photographs considered the most important in surveys where authoritative sources review the history of the medium not limited by time period, genre, topic, or other specific criteria." If you can find an image listed in an authoritative source's list of the most important photos ever, we can included it. Qono (talk) 16:06, 31 August 2022 (UTC)

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Lists citations

I've seen at least two lists used as references not as sources, which I've come to suspect is because of disorganization. Shouldn't all list related pages be used as sources? Carlinal (talk) 20:12, 30 May 2023 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 28 August 2023

38.81.150.88 (talk) 01:49, 28 August 2023 (UTC)

I would like for Donald Trump's presidential mugshot to be listed in the 2020's section. This is the first ever mugshot of a former US President and is on the list of the most important mugshots. I understand that it was only released in less than a week of writing, so I understand that there hasn't been time to add Trump's mugshot to the list of photos.

 Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{Edit extended-protected}} template. see discussion immediately above Cannolis (talk) 02:36, 28 August 2023 (UTC)

Sergeant Dawson and his Daughter

According to this article, Sergeant Dawson and his Daughter by John Mayall is considered the most important. No other works by Mayall are listed. If it is so important, then why does John Jabez Edwin Mayall not mention the work at all? --2001:1C06:19CA:D600:AFEF:A9F7:EA5:1764 (talk) 10:08, 6 September 2023 (UTC)

I revamped Mayall's article a bit mainly to accommodate this image and so things look a little smoother. I added a gallery to group all four images in the article into one place, and I wouldn't mind if it gets expanded or tweaked for further improvements. I copied the reference the Dawson photo was cited with and now things seem to be done. I'm open to further suggestions. Cheers. Carlinal (talk) 18:45, 6 September 2023 (UTC)

Unite the Right

I would argue a case could be made for this image of the Unite the Right rally https://bloximages.newyork1.vip.townnews.com/dailyprogress.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/8/17/81746fb4-7f0a-11e7-882c-5350968dd2f1/598e6f7b9d51d.image.jpg?resize=750%2C500 NerdKnight66 (talk) 03:47, 7 September 2023 (UTC)

Trump mug shot

There have been repeated attempts to add the Trump mug shot to this article. As of now, the image fails the criteria stipulated at the top of the article and in the "Sources" section. Discussion to achieve consensus is welcome. Continued edit warring to attempt to force the image onto the article without support in the Sources section will (a) fail, (b) likely lead to protection of the article, and (c) possible blocks of editors who engage in continued edit warring. Please, discuss. Thank you, --Hammersoft (talk) 13:17, 27 August 2023 (UTC)

Keep its entry. Page criteria seems dependent on actual surveys, so commonsense exceptions should be made for current photographs which have been agreed upon by multiple very reputable sources to be both iconic and history making (i.e. when will the next "survey" be taken, and whenever it is this photograph seems almost assured to be included within it). As an aside, this page received almost 7,000 views the first day that this entry was included, which adds to showing the photographs' already iconic status. Randy Kryn (talk) 14:54, 27 August 2023 (UTC)

Oppose an entry. I can't see how the inclusion of this (yet) would not be original research or an NPOV issue in the context of the inclusion criteria of this list, or how it makes sense from a non-policy standpoint. Just assuming that this photograph will be included on future RS lists seems very crystal ballish and is an editorial opinion that should not be represented in mainspace per WP:OR and WP:NPOV.

Irrespective of whether we should wait for another such medium-level review or instead extrapolate from the existing sources, I don't think that the current sources being cited can be taken at face value. We're talking about an incredibly high-profile, controversial event that has naturally drawn tons of media attention. "Importance" and "influence", as used in the context of this list, would require a level of historic significance over time. I would argue that any news source claiming, on the night of its release, that the image is "historic", "iconic", "infamous", etc. is not really considering the situation with a long-term view. It's very well possible that the photo will hold this significance in the future, but to speculate on that now would be premature. —⁠PlanetJuice (talk • contribs) 17:09, 27 August 2023 (UTC)

Oppose the inclusion of the image because it doesn't meet the inclusion criteria. I think it's likely that the image will eventually be added to a list that meets the criteria but until it does, adding it is original research. Qono (talk) 21:52, 27 August 2023 (UTC)

https://www.npr.org/2023/08/25/1196049416/presidential-photographer-says-trump-mugshot-will-be-most-published-photograph-e

https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/the-trump-mug-shots-art-historical-lineage

https://www.washingtonpost.com/style/2023/08/25/why-donald-trump-mugshot-matters/?outputType=amp

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/08/25/style/trump-mugshot.html

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-66612433

Here are a collection of sources that all testify to trump's mugshot being a historic and historically important photograph. NerdKnight66 (talk) 03:50, 7 September 2023 (UTC)

King Camp Gillette (1906)

The original was taken in 1906 by Benjamin Joseph Falk. Variations were widely used in Gillette's blade packaging until at least 1960, and it's still used for blades made in various Asian markets. Pictured on the right is a packet of modern Chinese-made Gillette Super Blue Blades.

This may or may not qualify based on current criteria and available sources, but I thought I'd share this anyway, since it seems to be pretty much forgotten in the modern day.

This photograph of King Camp Gillette, the inventor of the double-edge safety razor, has been reproduced tens of billions of times and distributed worldwide as part of the packaging of Gillette's double-edge razor blades. Whether or not this is one of the most important photographs, it's definitely one of the most circulated in terms of numbers and worldwide availability, and its heyday lasted from the early 1900s until the late 50s or early 60s.

I don't have an exact estimate, but the 1978 book King C. Gillette, the Man and His Wonderful Shaving Device (Q123153782) by Russell B. Adams states (p. 123 and the caption of the photograph after p. 178) that the picture has been circulated tens of billions of times. By my estimation, the Blue Blades packaging is the most widely known of these, as it was Gillette's "main" blade for ~30 years and this style of Blue Blades package was in use until at least 1960 (A Safety Razor Compendium, p. 451). While this wasn't the only blade made and sold by Gillette (the Gillette Thin Blade was another popular one, and Gillette had made private label blades since the 1920s), in 1947 Gillette was selling over a billion blades in the United States alone (Russell B. Adams, p. 201-203). So tens of billions seems very plausible.

It's not a very well-known picture today, and it's only used in Gillette's blade packaging in some Asian markets. Examples I was able to find (from razorbladesclub.com) are blades sold under the Gillette Super Thin Platinum brand in China, Vietnam, and Thailand. --Veikk0.ma 08:26, 15 November 2023 (UTC)

Anglocentrism

Both the list and its sources (4 sources are from the United States, 1 from Canada and 1 from Oxford) overly focus on photographs related to American society. As many as 5 photos concern the September 11 attacks, this is not a problem in itself, but it creates an ugly contrast with the lack of iconic photos for other nations. Iconic photos that would be useful to add for some balance:

Swiãtopôłk (talk) 02:40, 14 March 2023 (UTC)

Thank you, what a great list, and thank you for taking the time to collect it (and the list is being added to after I wrote this, no idea how large it will get). It would be nice if all of these could be added. I don't agree with your criticism above, the existing page photographs deserve inclusion, it's just that the criteria for this page should be changed to include most if not all of your list. Each are iconic, notable, and important photographs. Let's get some more comments. Randy Kryn (talk) 04:19, 14 March 2023 (UTC)

Here's how the list looked like when I wrote the above. Haven't checked any of the new listings. Was hoping others would comment, probably needs a note at a WikiProject or two to discuss criteria (as of now most of those images probably don't fit page criteria?). Randy Kryn (talk) 23:04, 18 March 2023 (UTC)

I'm actually done, while I'm writing I changed my plans about it and made a list to get on with it when I have more time. I would be grateful for new sources. Swiãtopôłk (talk) 01:06, 19 March 2023 (UTC)

I strongly agree with the criticism, I was scrolling through it just now, and went to the talk page just to express the same opinion. I don't know what would be a good source to base this article on, but the current ones create a heavy (perceived) bias. — WardMuylaert (talk) 11:28, 8 May 2023 (UTC)

I generally agree that the list's Anglo-centric focus is due to its reliance on sources from English-speaking countries. However, the inclusion criteria for the list is not necessarily the problem here (English sources aren't a requirement). We should consider incorporating authoritative and reliable sources from non-English-speaking countries to help balance the list. If anyone knows of such sources, please share them so we can consider them for inclusion. Qono (talk) 17:58, 8 May 2023 (UTC)

Americentric is the best word to sum this list all up. Some of those are unknown outside the US. The 1984 photo of Michael Jordan is only famous because it inspired the famous Jumpman logo, the photograph itself is not. Marilyn Monroe's white dress is mainly famous for the dress itself, not for the photograph of the dress. Not helped is the sources are from the US, therefore too US biased. - How about I suggest that it should be listed in 3 sources, henceforth removing most of them.

Wikipedia is becoming the Watchmojo of lists or it wants to be. 81.99.82.214 (talk) 13:33, 23 November 2023 (UTC)