Talk:List of presidents of the Czech Republic
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Requested move 2 June 2019
edit- The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
The result of the move request was: moved. Most editors believe that conformity to MOS:JOBTITLES is a more important consideration than consistency with non-conforming articles. (non-admin closure) — Newslinger talk 20:47, 24 June 2019 (UTC)
- List of Presidents of the Czech Republic → List of presidents of the Czech Republic
- List of Presidents of Ukraine → List of presidents of Ukraine
- List of Presidents of Croatia → List of presidents of Croatia
- List of Presidents of Serbia → List of presidents of Serbia
- List of Presidents of Montenegro → List of presidents of Montenegro
- List of Presidents of Czechoslovakia → List of presidents of Czechoslovakia
– Per Wikipedia's MOS:JOBTITLES: "Offices, titles, and positions such as president, king, emperor, grand duke, lord mayor, pope, bishop, abbot, chief financial officer, and executive director are common nouns and therefore should be in lower case when used generically. They are capitalized... when a formal title for a specific entity... is not plural."
This Wikipedia guideline reflects major style guides such as AP Stylebook and The Chicago Manual of Style, which explicitly state that "presidents" (plural) should always be lower case and that "president" (singular) should be upper case only when preceding a president's name. Surtsicna (talk) 15:27, 2 June 2019 (UTC) --Relisting. Steel1943 (talk) 19:00, 10 June 2019 (UTC)
- Oppose per List of Presidents of the United States and many similar titles which have been discussed many times before. Would be nice to put an RM moratorium on all related pages. Randy Kryn (talk) 02:42, 4 June 2019 (UTC)
- Recent discussions at Talk:List of presidents of Austria, Talk:List of chancellors of Germany and Talk:List of governors of New York have ended in agreement to move the articles to titles that reflect the community consensus reached at MOS:JOBTITLES and all major English language style guides. You have not presented any argument at all, let alone explained why basic orthography as laid out in the world's most reputable style guides (e.g. AP Stylebook and The Chicago Manual of Style) and Wikipedia's own manual of style should not apply to these six articles. Surtsicna (talk) 17:40, 4 June 2019 (UTC)
- On English Wikipedia these titles should follow the examples decided at List of Presidents of the United States and List of Vice Presidents of the United States, which have had this discussion and kept the titles upper-cased. The low hanging fruit pages such as List of presidents of Austria seem out of sight of most of those who've commented on those already decided pages, and these titles on English Wikipedia should probably be consistent with the better known English articles. Which is what I meant about a moratorium on similar names until they are changed at those pages. Randy Kryn (talk) 22:42, 10 June 2019 (UTC)
- On English Wikipedia these titles should follow the rules given in the manual of style of the English Wikipedia, which came about by consensus. It should go without saying that on English Wikipedia, these titles should also conform to English-language orthography (i.e. the style books quoted above). The suggestion that List of Presidents of the United States should be seen as the paramount article in Category:Lists of national presidents is Americentric beyond belief. The proposed move is grounded in policy and literature, and I gather that there is no policy- or literature-based opposition to it. Surtsicna (talk) 23:42, 10 June 2019 (UTC)
- Please note that the most recent RMs for those two articles were about a year ago, and many of the others noted below (e.g., the lists of governors of all the U.S. states) were more recent. Also please note that the most recent RMs for those two articles were both "no consensus" closures, not really affirmations of the current titles. Also note that we have List of presidents of the United States by age and Living presidents of the United States, which use lowercase and which were each also the subject of "no consensus" RMs about a year ago as well. There seems to be a trend in the last 6–24 months of being able to reach a consensus for lowercase in various similar RMs (as identified below). —BarrelProof (talk) 23:49, 10 June 2019 (UTC)
- On English Wikipedia these titles should follow the examples decided at List of Presidents of the United States and List of Vice Presidents of the United States, which have had this discussion and kept the titles upper-cased. The low hanging fruit pages such as List of presidents of Austria seem out of sight of most of those who've commented on those already decided pages, and these titles on English Wikipedia should probably be consistent with the better known English articles. Which is what I meant about a moratorium on similar names until they are changed at those pages. Randy Kryn (talk) 22:42, 10 June 2019 (UTC)
- Recent discussions at Talk:List of presidents of Austria, Talk:List of chancellors of Germany and Talk:List of governors of New York have ended in agreement to move the articles to titles that reflect the community consensus reached at MOS:JOBTITLES and all major English language style guides. You have not presented any argument at all, let alone explained why basic orthography as laid out in the world's most reputable style guides (e.g. AP Stylebook and The Chicago Manual of Style) and Wikipedia's own manual of style should not apply to these six articles. Surtsicna (talk) 17:40, 4 June 2019 (UTC)
- Strong support: I strongly agree with recent trend toward lowercasing in RMs for such topics consistently. Note that there has been a recent clarification of MOS:JOBTITLES and a recent string of RMs that support this, including (chronologically) those at Talk:List of mayors of Birmingham (July 2017, 10 pages moved), Talk:List of provosts of Aberdeen (September 2017, 4 pages moved), Talk:List of mayors of Leeds (October 2017, 7 pages moved), Talk:List of prime ministers of Elizabeth II (October 2017, 5 pages moved), Talk:Mayor of Barnstaple (November 2017, 23 pages moved), Talk:List of chairmen of the House Republican Conference (December 2018, 1 page moved), and (just within the few weeks) Talk:List of governors of New York (May 2019, 49 pages moved), Talk:List of lieutenant governors of Michigan (May 2019, 5 pages moved), Talk:List of chancellors of Germany (May 2019, 1 page moved), Talk:List of presidents of Austria (May 2019, 3 pages moved), and Talk:List of lord mayors of Stoke-on-Trent (May 2019, 3 pages moved) – each of those was a formal RM, and most of them were multi-page moves, and six of them were more recent than the most recent one I notice that moved
in the other directionto an uppercase plural and stayed there (List of heads of state of Angola → List of Presidents of Angola, November 2018, 1 page moved which was primarily proposed for a different reason – changing the words used in the title). (I don't know why I didn't notice this RM before; thanks for relisting, and please also see the ongoing RM at Talk:List of Lord Mayors of London.) —BarrelProof (talk) 21:40, 10 June 2019 (UTC) - Support per the MOS guideline and the community consensus that is its foundation. Paine Ellsworth, ed. put'r there 02:24, 21 June 2019 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.
A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion
editThe following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 17:38, 8 February 2023 (UTC)
