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Talk:List of primary state highways in Virginia/Archive 1

< Talk:List of primary state highways in Virginia
Latest comment: 7 years ago by Famartin in topic SR 248
Archive 1

naming articles on Virginia Secondary Roads

Latest comment: 18 years ago4 comments3 people in discussion

In Virginia, we have Interstate and Primary highways with unique numbers. But state maintained secondary routes have a numbering system which duplicates numbers from 600 up in various parts of the state. In WP, we are just now starting to get articles on some major secondary roads, such as Virginia Secondary Route 711, which is essentially as busy as and maintained like a primary highway, but isn't one because they want to keep it a scenic byway and discourage through traffic. This is an unusual situation with 711, but I see naming conflict on the horizon for others (i.e. there could be dozens of other roads which are also a Virginia secondary route numbered 711). The article List of Virginia numbered highways does a pretty good job of describing the conflicts we will have with names such as this one, but I don't know how else to name the article. Do we have a WP naming convention for situations such as this?

Mark in Historic Triangle Vaoverland 19:30, 14 October 2005 (UTC)
I'm not aware of any naming convention for Virginia secondary routes. Unless there is one that I've just overlooked, I'd like to propose the following, based with some modifications on the naming convention for California county routes. Please feel free to suggest any improvements, and if I should be saying this elsewhere, please advise.
For secondary routes in a single county, Virginia Secondary Route 7900 (Fairfax County).
For secondary routes crossing county lines, I'm not quite sure. We could name the article after the most populous county and give other names as redirects, e.g., Virginia Secondary Route 620 (Fairfax County) with Virginia Secondary Route 620 (Loudoun County) as a redirect. Alternatively, we could have a single name Virginia Secondary Route 620 (Fairfax-Loudoun counties).
Doctor Whom 23:25, 14 October 2005 (UTC)
This is indeed quite the quagmire. I feel that we should just have separate articles for each county route. Virginia Secondary Highway 606 (Loudoun County) and Virginia Secondary Highway 606 (Fairfax County). This will require a little bit of brainstorming and agreement. I actually support something like "Route 606 (Loudoun County, Virginia)" because that's apparently what User:SPUI has inserted in a lot of the exit lists such as I-95 and so forth. But if we're up to it, I'm up to it. Check out my WikiProject on my userpage. It's near the bottom. --MPD01605 02:26, 25 March 2006 (UTC)
I have no strong feelings either way as to whether we go with "Route 606 (Loudoun County, Virginia)" or "Virginia Secondary Highway 606 (Loudoun County)." I do believe that if a secondary route goes through more than one county, as is the case with Route 711 (Powhatan and Chesterfield Counties, Virginia), we should have a single article, with redirects as needed. Of course, routes that are entirely separate except for having the same number should have separate articles. Doctor Whom 02:09, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

WikiProject

Latest comment: 18 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

Please check this out and offer your support and ideas. I'd really like to see this happen soon. Virginia Highway Wikiproject Temporary Page (WikiProject Proposals VA Highways). --MPD01605 05:36, 1 April 2006 (UTC)

These numbers were eliminated or truncated in 1933 as they were concurrent with U.S. Routes

Latest comment: 18 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

US 17 is confusing; I may finish that later. --NE2 06:37, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

Route or State Route?

Latest comment: 18 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

I've seen both these terms used outside Wikipedia. Which one should we be using? --NE2 08:08, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

2 1/2% clause routes

The law allowed 100 extra miles per year.

1922

[1]

This is 78.1 miles total, and is the "remaining mileage". The other routes may be in the end of 1922; the November and December 1922 minutes have broken links. Numbers are not given in the minutes, but are from [2].

1923

[3]

30.0 miles:

[4]

[73.0] miles (makes more than 100!):

Virginia Beach towards Fort Story for about 3 miles added - again not sure if it was part of the 2.5% system[5] - State Route 101, now part of U.S. Route 60

1924

April 1924

There are lists in March 1924, March 1924, April 1924, July 1924, January 1925

Two-digit routes

Many routes that were added are only described in the table below. Here are some two-digit routes:

There's an interesting bit on Route 31 north of South Hill on December 1923 page 19.

Spurs of the 1923-1928 system

State Route 10
State Route 101 Virginia Beach - Fort Story - Norfolk June 1923 as Route 101 Virginia Beach 3.5 mi towards Fort Story
State Route 102 Gate City - TN March 1923; June 1923 as Route 102
State Route 103 Suffolk - NC Route 12W? in January 1923; March 1923 objections filed
State Route 104 south of Appomattox - Appomattox - Vera - Mount Rush Route 104 appears in March 1924
State Route 105 Glade Spring - Saltville - Tazewell - WV May 1923 as Route 105 Old Glade Springs - Saltville; Route 105 appears in March 1924
State Route 106 TN - Abingdon - Dickensonville March 1923 Route 10Y at least "between Lebanon and Hansonville"; December 1923 as Route 106 Abingdon - Hansonville
State Route 107 Cumberland Gap - TN
State Route 108 Smithfield - Isle of Wight - Franklin - NC May 1923 as Route 108 Smithfield - Isle of Wight
State Route 109 Dublin - Staffordsville March 1923 Dublin - Poplar Hill; June 1923 as Route 109 Poplar Hill - Dublin
State Route 1010 Jonesville - Blackwater
State Route 1011 Petersburg - Hopewell
State Route 1012 Norfolk - Princess Anne
State Route 11
State Route 111 Claypool Hill - Grundy Route 111 or Route 113 was Route 11X in March 1923 ("Grundy-Hanger"); Route 111 appears in March 1924
State Route 112 Hansonville - Lebanon
State Route 113 St. Paul - Dante Route 111 or Route 113 was Route 11X in March 1923 ("Grundy-Hanger"); March 1923 as Route 113
State Route 114 Coeburn - Grundy Route 11Z; Route 114 appears in March 1924
State Route 1141 Clintwood - Pound
State Route 115 Appalachia - KY January 1923
State Route 116 Big Stone Gap - Clinchport January 1923; May 1923 as Route 116
State Route 117 Tazewell - WV May 1923 as Route 117
State Route 118 Rosedale - Council
State Route 119 Norton - KY
State Route 12
State Route 121 Franklin - NC Route 12Y in January 1923; Route 121 appears in March 1924
State Route 122 South Hill - NC
Edgerton - McKenney
State Route 123 Mouth of Wilson - NC May 1923 as Route 123
State Route 124 Chase City - Lunenburg
State Route 125 Lodi - Meadowview
State Route 13
State Route 131 St. Stephens Church - King and Queen CH March 1923 as Route 131
State Route 132 Tobaccoville - Amelia March 1923 Tobaccoville? Amelia? - Morven; June 1923 as Route 132 Tobaccoville - Morven
State Route 14
State Route 141 Natural Bridge - Glasgow
State Route 142 Clifton Forge - Eagle Rock
State Route 143 Crows - WV March 1923; June 1923 as Route 143
State Route 17
State Route 171 Buffalo Gap - Staunton March 1923 as Route 171
State Route 172 Goshen - Lexington March 1923 as Route 172 Goshen - Cedar Grove, but objections from Cedar Grove to Route 3
State Route 18
State Route 181 Route 18 - Nellysford
State Route 182 Claypool - Lowesville
State Route 20
State Route 201 Burkeville - Victoria, Boydton - Clarksville
State Route 202 Charlotte CH - Drakes Branch
State Route 21
State Route 211 New Baltimore - Centreville
State Route 212 Luray - Elkton Route 212 appears in March 1924
State Route 213 Culpeper - Rixeyville
State Route 22
State Route 221 Route 22 - Catawba Hopital
State Route 23
State Route 231 Rich Creek - WV
State Route 232 Hillsville - Floyd - Roanoke
State Route 25
State Route 251 Greenville - Waynesboro - Elkton - Front Royal - Berryville - Leesburg - Tysons Corner
State Route 29
State Route 291 Gloucester - Mathews
State Route 31
State Route 311 Ashland - Hanover - Bowling Green - Fredericksburg
State Route 3111 Route 311 - Hanover
State Route 312 Coatesville - Gum Tree (with extensions as 31 was relocated) March 1923 Gum Tree - Coatesville; June 1923 as Route 312 Gum Tree - Coatesville
State Route 313 Centralia - Chesterfield
State Route 314 South Hill - Alberta?
Route 31 - Mt. Vernon
State Route 315 Woodbridge - Occoquan
State Route 316 Chester - Hopewell Bridge
State Route 32
State Route 321 Zion - Oilville December 1923 as Route 321
State Route 322 Sprouse Corner - Buckingham January 1923; May 1923 as Route 322
State Route 323 Keysville - Blackstone Route 323 appears in March 1924
State Route 324 Clarksville - Boydton
State Route 325 Leesburg - Purcellville - Berryville March 1923 Leesburg - Purcellville; June 1923 as Route 325 Leesburg - Purcellville; January 1924 as Route 325 Berryville - east side Shenandoah River
State Route 326 Route 32 - Palmyra
State Route 327 Bealeton - Falmouth
State Route 33
State Route 331 Woodstock - WV
State Route 332 Lacey Springs - WV
State Route 333 Harrisonburg - WV
State Route 334 Greenville - Stuarts Draft - Waynesboro
State Route 335 Rocky Mount - Bedford
State Route 336 Mt. Jackson - Orkney Springs
State Route 337 Ridgeway - NC
State Route 338 Covington - Warm Springs - Goshen - Lexington January 1923 Lexington - Goshen (may not have been 338?)
State Route 339 Winchester - Gainsboro
State Route 34
State Route 341 Route 34 - Parksley March 1923 as Route 341
State Route 342 Onancock - Cashville
Onley - Onancock - Pungoteague 		Route 4X March 1923 as Route 342 Onancock - Tasley - Route 4
State Route 343 Eastville east
State Route 35
State Route 351 Sussex - Homerville - Waverly
State Route 36
State Route 361 Millwood - Berryville - WV
State Route 37
State Route 371 Templemen Crossroads - Callao - Reedville Route 7X in March 1923; Route 371 appears in March 1924
State Route 372 Wakefield - George Washington's Birthplace Route 7Y
State Route 373 Strasburg - Riverton objections so tabled in March 1923
State Route 374 Orange - Wilderness March 1923; June 1923 as Route 374
State Route 375 King George - Dahlgren
State Route 376 near Berryville?
State Route 377 Oak Grove - Colonial Beach
State Route 39
State Route 391 Lee Hall - Yorktown - Messick Route 9 Spur; March 1924 as Route 391 Lebanon Church - Lee Hall
State Route 392 Williamsburg - Jamestown - Scotland - Surry - Dendron Route 9 Spur October 1923 as Route 392 Williamsburg - Jamestown
State Route 393 Bottoms Bridge - Andersons Corner Route 9X? March 1923 as Route 393 Bottoms Bridge - New Kent
State Route 394 Hampton - Buckroe Beach May 1923 as Route 394
State Route 395 Highland - WV
State Route 396 where?
State Route 397 Route 39 - Lee Hall

Initial numbers for Interstates

Latest comment: 18 years ago5 comments2 people in discussion

These numbers were assigned to the Interstates in the late 1950s before the permanent numbers were assigned.

  • 401 I-95 (03-1957-01 page 23 at Emporia, 10-1957-02 page 1 at Woodbridge (to the south end of Route 350))
  • 402 I-81 (03-1957-01 page 22 at Buchanan, page 23 at Bristol, 05-1957-01 page 64 at Harrisonburg)
  • 403 I-64 (03-1957-01 page 24 at Covington/Clifton Forge)
  • 404 I-64 (05-1957-01 page 53 at Waynesboro, 09-1957-01 at Newport News, 12-1957-01 at Hampton)
  • 405 I-66 (05-1957-01 page 15 at Fairfax, 08-1957-01 at Centreville)
  • 406
  • 407 I-381 (03-1957-01 page 23 whole route - also included Route 381 to the state line)
  • 408 I-81??? (01-1959-01 page 2 "Int. Route 130, (Near Natural Bridge)-1.533 Miles N. of Int. Route 130, Rockbridge County" - might not be 408 (hard to read); 03-1955-01 page 9 lists a possibly related project as Route 11)
  • 409 I-564? (08-1958-01)
  • 410
  • 411
  • 412
  • 413 I-495 (07-1959-01 page 13 whole route; 03-1958-01 page 50 whole route, lists it as "413 (88)" - other Interstates are for instance "95 (1)" and "66 (55,17)" - 05-1957-01 page 17 calls it "Route 415 (Route 88)" - also see 07-1956-01 page 39 - "Metropolitan Circumferential")

10-1957-02 page 2 also includes the permanent two-digit numbers. 03-1958-01 page 12 lists the renumberings: 64 to 63, 66 to 65, 81 to 69, 85 to 102. 04-1958-01 22-23 lists the numbers again and the spurs (unnumbered). 11-1961-01 page 9 lists the renumbering caused by I-295: 295 to 215.

Another interesting fact - present US 11W in Bristol (State Street to Route 381) was temporarily designated Route 597! (04-1960-01 page 41) --NE2 00:16, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

Other Interstates that could fit:

  • I-77 - no, added later
  • I-195 - no, added in 1969
  • I-264 - not sure
  • I-295 - not sure
  • I-464 - not sure
  • I-564 - not sure
  • I-664 - no, added later

--NE2 00:24, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

    • I believe the I-295 designation was done much later. The roadway we currently know as I-295 was originally intended to be I-95 and effectively bypass the Richmond-Petersburg Turnpike and run to the east of Richmond and Petersburg. The loss of the I-95 designation through each was of great concern to those two cities, and the redesignation of the newer routing as I-295 was a largely politically motivated decision well into the design and build process in the 1980s. I was a transportation-involved person for Petersburg at the time, and we feared great loss of tourism, motel traffic, etc. The Turnpike's routing through Richmond left that city with less opportunities to build service stations, restaurants, and motels along the roadway through the city, but the political muscle was still utilized to (successfully) avoid losing the I-95 designation. Scott Kozel's "Roads to the Future" website has a good explanation of much of this and other interesting background. Vaoverland 17:03, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

08-1968-01 41 has some proposed Interstates, including SR 164. --NE2 15:04, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

Details of the renumberings

Latest comment: 18 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

04-1923-01 uses only old numbers for three-digit numbers, 05-1923-01 uses both, and 05-1923-02 uses only new numbers. But 06-1923-01 still uses both old and new for x/3x (possibly erroneously). 07-1923-01 uses only 3x.

08-1928-01 uses the old numbers. 08-1928-02 looks like the first to use the new numbers, but it also uses the old ones (without "old route" or anything). This dual usage continues through 01-1929-03; the first few in 1929 have funding tables with old and new columns. Other than that, 02-1929-01 seems to be the first one with only new numbers.

12-1932-01 page 1 talks about how and why they should study renumbering. The first relevant use af "new route" or "old route" seems to be 08-1933-01, but is incomplete. It appears that 10-1933-01 and on uses only new numbers.

10-1940-01 page 8 has a full table of the 1940 renumbering. --NE2 12:36, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

The following suffixed routes existed before the 1923 renumbering

Latest comment: 18 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion
  • 4-X (341): "Tasley to Onancock" 03-1923-01 page 8
  • 7-X (371): "Callao to a point at or near Hague, thence to connect with Route 7 at a point near Templeman's Cross Roads" 11-1922-02 page 6, "Warsaw, Templeman's Cross Roads, The Hague, Callao, Reedsville" 01-1923-01 page 5, "between Warsaw and Heathsville" 03-1923-01 page 9
  • 7-Y (372): "between Washington's Old Home and Intersection of Route 7" 11-1922-02 page 5
  • 9-X (30 or 393): "West Point to Richmond either via New Kent C.H. or King William C.H." 11-1922-01 page 4
  • 10-Y (112): "between Lebanon and Hansonville" 10-1922-01 page 11, 03-1923-02 page 7, page 17, 05-1923-01 page 6
  • 11-X (111?) "Grundy-Hanger" [Hanger is Keen Mountain?] 03-1923-02 page 12
  • 11-Z (1141, maybe also 114): "Clintwood toward Fremont" 10-1922-01 page 4
  • 12-W (103): "Suffolk to the North Carolina Line" 01-1923-01 page 9
  • 12-X (40): "Deep Creek to the N.C.State Line" 09-1922-01 page 7, 10-1922-01 page 9 [also talks about South Hill - probably a typo for South Mills, NC - or maybe there were two 12-X's? Earlier stuff does talk about South Hill south to NC, which became 122, but 08-1922-01 page 7 says they can't take it over until tolls are removed. 03-1923-01 page 15 says that tolls were still collected, but also calls it Route 122! But 10-1922-01 page 9 refers to a General Jervey, who is City Manager of Portsmouth - why would he care about 122? It has to be a typo for South Mills.], "from Portsmouth City limits to the intersection of the Deep Creek Boulevard" 03-1923-01 page 2
  • 12-Y (121): "between Franklin and Smith's Ferry" 01-1923-01 page 13, "Franklin to the North Carolina Line" 03-1923-01 page 8, 04-1923-01 page 3
  • 12-Z (15): "between Hillsville and the North Carolina Line... by way of Fancy Gap" 11-1922-01 page 11

--NE2 04:46, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

Mentions of U.S. Highway planning

Latest comment: 18 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion
  • 01-1922-03 28 - not U.S. Highways, but mentions roads crossing the NC line
  • 07-1925-01 9 mentions tabling an auto trail proposal until the U.S. Highways are designated
  • 10-1925-02 5 - addition of US 401 and US 501
  • 12-1925-01 7 - adding state highways (Petersburg to Emporia and US 21)
  • 04-1926-01 7 - authorized to cooperate with other states

--NE2 00:51, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

Acts that affected the system

Latest comment: 18 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

Hopefully this will be added to the article if I get it all figured out.

The Governor appointed the Commission under Chapter 403, Acts of 1922.[1]

All acts:

  • 184 1920 Robertson Act - peaple can advance money for certain projects
  • 403 1922 - created the new Commission, 2½% clause (04-1926-01 8)
  • 448 1924
  • 160 1928
  • 55 1930 - 1587 miles more per year (09-1930-01 22)
  • 64 1930 - town takeovers

Town takeovers:

  • 07-1930-02 12, 09-1930-01 4-5, 12-1930-01 5, 12-1930-03 8, 01-1931-01 7, 02-1931-01 8, 05-1931-01 12, 06-1931-01 12, 08-1931-01 02, 10-1931-01 21, 12-1931-01 3 - possibly more searching for "take over"

--NE2 13:05, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

References

  1. ^ Minutes of the First Meeting of the State Highway Commission Created Under the Acts of 1922, Held July 5, 1922, Richmond, Va., page 1

Complete list, 1933-present for three-digit numbers

Latest comment: 18 years ago3 comments3 people in discussion

I'm playing around with a new format. If it works, I'll replace the one on the article with this one. (moved to the article --NE2 14:46, 4 September 2006 (UTC))

I prefer this format here, and would like to see it used on the lsit of Virginia numbered highways. --Willy No1lakersfan (Talk - Contribs) 14:27, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

I like the new format. I was looking at Oklahoma's and it was on my to-do list to table that all up. Beat me to it. Looks good. --MPD01605 (T / C) 15:06, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

Highways that end at state borders

Latest comment: 17 years ago5 comments2 people in discussion

Instead of just listing the state when a Virginia state highway ends at a border, what about listing the state and where it ends in Virginia? For example, US 1 begins in North Carolina at Mecklenberg County (or near South Hill) and ends in Washington D.C. at Arlington.Anderfreude 04:19, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

It's possible. Are we taking about the lead paragraph? If so, yeah that's fine. "Virginina State Route 9 begins at West Virginia State Route 9 on the Jefferson County/Loudoun County border and ends at State Route 7 just east of Leesburg" bad example, but maybe something like "US 15 enters from North Carolina in Mecklenberg County near Clarksville and travels through central Virginia, ending at the Potomac River in Loudoun County and continues into Maryland." Gramatically speaking, it should be "in" a county and "at" a city... for state routes "begin" and "end" are fine and should note the route that it begins and ends at (a different state's route, even), and yeah the Virginia county it ends in. Likewise for U.S. and Interstate routes, except they don't necessarily "end"...so "enter" and "leave" could be better I guess. As long as it makes sense, feel free to make it work however you think it does. :-) --MPD T / C 04:32, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
Sorry to be unclear- I meant in the table, so US 1 North Carolina in Mecklenberg Co. Washington D.C. at Arlington. I put it in the table, so if people like it then we'll expand on it, if not then not.Anderfreude 23:29, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
Put slightly different format in the table for space-saving reasons, want to know what you all think.Anderfreude 23:38, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
U.S. 1 in VA looks fine! Yeah, space was my main concern, but that one looks good! --MPD T / C 06:05, 9 March 2007 (UTC)
Latest comment: 7 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

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SR 248

Latest comment: 7 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

I removed this highway from the current list (the former route remains listed) because I can find absolutely no reference to it anywhere. Anyone have a clue? Famartin (talk) 03:12, 23 June 2017 (UTC)

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