Talk:List of tenors in non-classical music

Additions to the list

Additions to the list must already have a an article on Wikipedia and require an inline citation in this list to a reliable source which verifies that the singer has been described as a tenor. Unreferenced additions constitute original research and will be removed. This list is not the place to post individual editors' personal opinions. Voceditenore (talk) 11:34, 23 September 2011 (UTC)

Clay Aiken Thom Yorke

Are not Tenors. Most of these publications are not reliable when they call people tenors because they dont understand the voice very well. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.19.236.239 (talk) 03:29, 9 October 2011 (UTC)

Conor Oberst is even less of a tenor. Definitely a baritone. 98.43.163.235 (talk) 13:26, 1 November 2024 (UTC)

Pictures

BrotherDarksoul:

Why do we need six pictures up there?

Maybe YOUR monitor is large enough to accommodate six pictures without stretching the screen. Mine, however, is not. (I'm fairly certain that I speak for a great many other people on this issue.)

Why is it so important that we need pictures of Thom Yorke and Adam Lambert? They're unnecessary.

If you're that attached to them, let's take either Bono, Steven Tyler, Michael Jackson, or Darren Criss out.LizFL (talk) 01:29, 5 January 2012 (UTC)

Clearly your not going to be consoled on this issue, I never once stated that they were necessary I merely added them because they do fit (my screen is that of a laptop - which is smaller than most stand alone monitors). So as its so obviously an issue for you, you can do whatever you like! And by the way net manners cost nothing, there is no need for the attitude. BrotherDarksoul (talk) 17:23, 05 January 2012 (UTC)

I'm sorry I snapped at you.

This is getting us nowhere. We're two people on opposite sides of the street looking at a traffic accident -- You're seeing one thing, I'm seeing something else.

I'm at a loss on what to do. LizFL (talk) 08:50, 6 January 2012 (UTC)

Its understandable believe me, when you become passionate about a page your looking after! I am more than happy to cut the number of pics as long as they look tidy on the page, also as long as the artists there show some kind of musical diversity too. I don't mean to be defensive either so I apologize. Feel free to tweak and make any changes I wont by any means go on a revertion spree! BrotherDarksoul (talk) 15:34, 06 January 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for removing Adam Lambert.

I sing tenor in the choir at my church. I got involved primarily because, gosh darn it, I want something to sing! :) LizFL (talk) 22:26, 6 January 2012 (UTC)

Ahh no probs, have to admit it does look much better without, better page alignment! Ooooh nice! I love singing too, used to sing more classical/opera styles in the tenor range, now Im more baritone. Although I dont sing so much these days as my walls are thin and my neighbours would prob think I am a bit strange belting out songs to myself (unless I'm drunk - then I dont care too much) hehe BrotherDarksoul (talk) 22:52, 06 January 2012 (UTC)

My page is fine now. :) I'm somewhat of a high tenor. Doing this project has given me some ideas. Sting and Boy George are definite possibilities (Think "The Crying Game" ... I'm afraid that his Culture Club stuff would be considered a sacrilege! :O ) LizFL (talk) 23:01, 6 January 2012 (UTC)

Ahh good good! I know what you mean it has totally spiked my interest in the subject again after some time of musical abstinence....I have previously spent a lot of time adding to/renovating the soprano page in particular but I have also been moving around the diff ones slowly but surely! Lol I think you should give any song a bash....why not? If I find any new names for the page I will be sure to add them (providing the sources are good enough obvs) Hope all is well ;) BrotherDarksoul (talk) 00:45, 10 January 2012 (UTC)

I rearranged the photo layout. This should allow for a good mix of generations and musical styles while curing page-stretch issues.

Having said this, let's be judicious about who we include. We should be striving for a representative sampling of artists. This is not intended to be a photo gallery of everyone's favorite singer.LizFL (talk) 00:52, 17 January 2012 (UTC)

• Actually, this photo layout is really not helpful and makes the page look like a poorly designed website rather than an encyclopedia article. The reader has to scroll past a whole screenload of images before they can even get to the list. Plus, images of this size seriously increase the loading time for readers on slow internet connections and cause problems for the visually impaired using screen readers. (Note: I am not visually impaired, have a very large screen and a fast internet connection.) And why are they presented in this unwieldy and non-standard table format with empty caption spaces appearing beneath them, further confusing and cluttering the layout? What is wrong with following Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Images and placing them down the right-hand side at intervals, in smaller sizes, with standard captions below the image as also recommended by Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Accessibility? Or alternatively if you all insist on grouping them horizontally like this, using the standard gallery format? Voceditenore (talk) 08:13, 17 January 2012 (UTC)

I have removed a lot of the pictures here and on the baritone pages to reflect the other pages and keep them looking a bit more tidy (there is now six pictures on each page), I am happy for anyone to change who is in the pictures though, this and the baritone page are not my usual haunts but felt the need to do it for the sake of consistency and standards throughout them all. If anyone has any suggestions about the pics or the layout of the pages in general feel free throw throw a penny in though, thanks! BrotherDarksoul ^Blether 20:44, 30 August 2012 (UTC)

• Thank you for cleaning up the image layouts of all these lists, it was much needed. As for 'which' pictures should be chosen, I believe we should follow some kind of criterion in order to prevent people adding whoever their current favourite singer is. Variety of genres is of course welcome (and, speaking of the tenors page, listing singers as diverse as Bono, Jackson, Marley and Timberlake is surely apt), but I also believe we should consider the notability of the singers listed - whether because of their careers or because of the actual notability of their tenor singing voice. For this reason, I can't fathom choosing to show a picture of Thom Yorke or Bruce Dickinson over, say, Freddie Mercury or Elton John, who are arguably better known by the general Wikipedia user. Before making any changes, though, I prefer to hear what everyone's opinion is - suggestions on which criteria we should follow are more than welcome. --Angelikfire (talk) 09:29, 19 September 2012 (UTC)

Don't immediately delete someone because he's unsourced

Let people find the sources. Give some time. Tag them if it is so unacceptable... Isn't this Wikipedia? elpincha (talk) 13:12, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

Find the source, THEN upload it to Wikipedia. (WP:RS)

We can't have WP being being cluttered with info from personal blogs and fan guesses. We have to enforce some standards. LizFL (talk) 01:47, 25 January 2012 (UTC)

Billy Ocean

I would like to submit Billy Ocean as an addition to the list of tenors in non-classical music. Though he is already listed as a baritone in non-classical music, due to the citation of a single article which describes his voice as being baritone, that article is erroneous. He reaches high notes that only tenors can typically reach, and his voice is not dark or deep like typical baritones. He has never sung in the baritone range on any recordings I've heard, particularly his period of greatest success: 1984-1988. His tessitura is definitely in the tenor range.

I have four articles to cite in order to back up my claim that he is indeed a tenor:

http://www.answers.com/topic/billy-ocean-album http://www.people.com/people/archive/article/0,,20094528,00.html http://www.soultracks.com/billy-ocean-because-i-love-you-review http://blogcritics.org/music/article/billy-ocean-talks-past-present-and/page-3/

Please add Billy Ocean to this list. Thank you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.44.138.213 (talk) 03:48, 11 October 2012 (UTC)

George Michael a baritone?

Have you even heard his singing? That guy is far away from being any kind of Baritone. He definetely sounds like a tenor (wether low, high or whatever). The source doesn't know what they're talking about calling him a baritone.

Tenors by genre? Can we have someone do a tenor by music genre? if it is just non-classical that seems confusing because there are many tenors in different genres for example I'm sure a country tenor sounds nothing like a soul tenor because of the technique used. I know each tenor on here will have a genre on this list but I think it needs too be in depth.. someone please reply to this thanks I don't know how to do this but wish someone would. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.193.122.12 (talk) 10:50, 3 January 2014 (UTC)

This is NOT a listing of fan favorites

Wikipedia has rules that we have to abide by. Any artist that is listed here as a tenor has to be certified as such by a reliable source (i.e., newspapers, magazines, official websites, etc. See WP:RS for more information.).

The mere fact that YOU may like a particular artist is not enough grounds for inclusion in this list. Fan blogs, fan websites, and forums are not considered reliable sources.

This flood of unsourced entries is bordering on the ridiculous. This has to stop NOW. LizFL (talk) 23:15, 27 February 2014 (UTC)

Orphaned references in List of tenors in non-classical music

I check pages listed in Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of List of tenors in non-classical music's orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.

Reference named "leeds":

• From Adam Levine: Leeds, Jeff (May 21, 2007). "Second CD by Maroon 5 Faces Great Expectations". The New York Times. Retrieved 2 March 2014. {{cite news}}: Italic or bold markup not allowed in: |publisher= (help)
• From Luther Vandross: Leeds, Jeff (July 2, 2005). "Luther Vandross, Smooth Crooner of R&B, Is Dead at 54". The New York Times. Retrieved May 24, 2014.

I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. AnomieBOT⚡ 05:30, 22 December 2014 (UTC)

Beck a tenor, really?

Are these random online reviews really credible reference points, either?— Preceding unsigned comment added by Banezi (talk • contribs) 14:48, February 13, 2015‎

I'd assume Rolling Stone is a reliable source for such a claim. - SummerPhD (talk) 04:51, 14 February 2015 (UTC)

Another list for countertenors?

Some male singers have higher pitched voices than Pavarotti. Examples of countertenors include Brad Delp, Steve Perry, Billy Gilman, Jordan Smith, Alex Newell and Chris Colfer. I'd say that the singer of The Weeknd and Adam Lambert are also countertenors. Michael Jackson and Bruno Mars are on the fence, they are perhaps leggero tenors, but getting near the countertenor territory. --85.157.133.120 (talk) 19:18, 24 March 2017 (UTC)

George Harrison, a tenor?

I know that from the late 60's onward, he usually sang with a tenor range vocal, but it's pretty obvious that he's a natural baritone. This is evident on certain earlier Beatles songs such as "Do You Want to Know a Secret?", "Chains", "You've Really Got a Hold on Me" (w/ John Lennon), "Devil in Her Heart", "Don't Bother Me", and "I'm Happy Just to Dance with You" he sang quite comfortably within the high baritone range. On top of that, when George Harrison spoke, he definitely spoke with a baritone vocal, arguably making him have the second deepest voice out of The Beatles. ― C.Syde (talk | contribs) 04:37, 21 July 2017 (UTC)

To add an entry here we would need an independent reliable source directly stating Harrison was a tenor. - SummerPhD^v2.0 12:57, 21 July 2017 (UTC)

Okay. Well I'm still against keeping the information personally, since I still consider him to be a baritone, despite generally singing within the tenor range in the late 60's onwards, since he's definitely a natural baritone, but since it's been sourced with a reliable source, I have no arguments to strongly oppose it! :D ― C.Syde (talk | contribs) 03:48, 22 July 2017 (UTC)

Revisiting the question: @C.Syde Currently, Harrison is listed as a tenor. Earlier this year, I marked this listing as dubious and noted that the sources were iffy. Now, I cannot verify that either cited source even says he is a tenor. I do see another online source (https://www.udiscovermusic.com/stories/best-male-rock-singers-legendary-vocalists/) that calls him a "high tenor", which is just weird. On the other hand, I cannot find a single reliable online source that calls him a baritone, which is what I think he is. I suggest we remove him from the list. Thoughts? SunCrow (talk) 00:34, 11 October 2019 (UTC)

The latter of the two sources definitely still states that he is a tenor. But it looks like the former site has moved to a new site which I haven't learned how to navigate around yet. So I can see where you're coming from there. I also agree that calling him a "high tenor" is way off, as his range, timbre, natural tonal characteristics, and tessitura are too low for that. His natural range is definitely lower than Paul's, but while I do feel that his vocal pitch is naturally more like a baritone's, his timbre and tessitura are more like a tenor's. But I wouldn't necessarily be opposed to removing him from the list. At least until we can find some more reliable sources. ― C.Syde (talk | contribs) 00:50, 11 October 2019 (UTC)

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James Taylor not a tenor- JT is listed as baritone and as tenor. He himself rated his voice as being baritone (with some regret) Kind regards Thomas P. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.233.26.92 (talk) 11:10, 14 January 2019 (UTC)

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Layne Staley and Paul McCartney, tenors?

Actually Layne Staley was a very (jim) morrisonesque baritone that could also sing as a tenor, Paul McCartney is a very low baritone that sometimes he could sing almost like a bass, but also he could do a convincing tenor voice. --189.216.120.158 (talk) 23:50, 27 August 2020 (UTC)

There is no way in hell that Paul McCartney is a low baritone. He's a standard tenor who just had an extremely good range. I know that you wouldn't expect a tenor to be able to extend below the contrabass range, but that doesn't mean it isn't possible. Don't forget that it's not always about the notes you can hit. It's also about the colour and timbre of your voice. Paul's timbre is too light to be a baritone. Not sure about the other guy you've mentioned, as I've never heard him. ― C.Syde (talk | contribs) 00:08, 28 August 2020 (UTC)

Actually he has a very heavy voice tone and it's definitively not a tenor, he's a baritone, he can sing as low as A1, that is definitively not standard for a tenor, also Lady Madonna, Back In The USSR and other songs show him very comfortable singing in a baritone range instead of tenor. --189.216.120.222 (talk) 10:32, 4 September 2020 (UTC)

As I have already stated, just because a person is comfortable singing in the baritone range doesn't necessarily make them a baritone. And being able to hit notes that aren't standard for a tenor doesn't automatically mean that they aren't a tenor. When Paul McCartney sang on songs like Lady Madonna and Back in the U.S.S.R., he didn't really sound like a baritone to me. He sounded like a tenor singing in the baritone range.

George Harrison was also comfortable singing in the baritone range, although his range wasn't as impressive as Paul's. And while George's natural voice was definitely deep enough to be classified as a baritone in my opinion, I wouldn't say that his timbre is quite dark enough. Since Paul's passaggio happens higher than George's, if George's timbre isn't quite dark enough to be classified as a baritone, then there's no chance that Paul's is. ― C.Syde (talk | contribs) 11:33, 4 September 2020 (UTC)

George actually was a full lyric tenor, he had a much lighter singing voice than Paul and John, that were both dramatic tenors, also Layne Staley was a dramatic tenor. --189.217.81.95 (talk) 13:35, 15 February 2021 (UTC)

I'm not entirely sure if George's singing voice was darker than Paul's. But it was definitely deeper. Yes I know that having a deeper voice doesn't necessarily guarantee one a lower vocal classification. As far as I'm aware, Paul definitely had the lightest singing voice of the four Beatles at the beginning, though this may have changed as he got older. He certainly had the highest singing voice of the four. Paul's singing voice definitely got darker with age. While George's timbre didn't really seem to ever be affected by age which is odd since he did have a history of excessive smoking.

Also I wouldn't say that John was a dramatic tenor. Because he wasn't even a natural tenor as far as I'm concerned. I'd say that a lyric baritone who preferred to sing dramatic tenor would be more fitting. ― C.Syde (talk | contribs) 11:01, 11 June 2021 (UTC)

Michael Jackson's fach

Michael Jackson was not a high tenor. He was a lyric tenor, spinto tenor, dramatic tenor, or even a Heldentenor. His voice coach said he had a deep speaking voice, but Michael Jackson didn't want to speak low-pitched because he thought that he might lose his high-pitched singing voice. Various websites claim Jackson as a high tenor. MJ had a four-octave voice. He was also not castrated. In 2011, Alain claimed that Jackson had the voice of a castrato. In 2016 and 2018, Jackson's doctor Murray claimed the same statement that Jackson took Cyperterone to prevent his voice changing. He naturally had the darkest and heaviest voice in the tenor Jackson brothers. Sophiam122 (talk • contribs) 21:14, 14 December 2020 (UTC)