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Talk:List of twin towns and sister cities in China

Latest comment: 1 year ago by Webclinic in topic Baoding – Sønderborg
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The Beijing page has absolutely NO twin town/sister city section or mention for that matter...

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Latest comment: 7 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

So the Districts of Beijing where all of these sister cities are, should be listed as well, for Beijing. It would be of help to do this for several other of the Prefecture Cities & several Prefecture Level Cities as well. Or, something to address the undersight. 82.30.84.177 (talk) 20:28, 1 February 2017 (UTC)Reply

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Chinese sources should be translated

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Latest comment: 6 years ago5 comments2 people in discussion

User: Finnusertop is playing on words, by arguing that when an assertion is not a perfect quote it doesn’t need anymore to satisfy the requirement of WP:NOENG of being translated into English. This is ridiculous. Information concerning twin cities is amongst the most elusive and difficult to source, and subject to changes and interpretations. It should definitely be correctly sourced, with an information accessible to the lambda WP:EN user who cannot read Chinese, and who certainly cannot search for the information on a Chinese municipality untranslated homepage. Sapphorain (talk) 14:21, 11 February 2018 (UTC)Reply

@Sapphorain: here is what the source says: "近日，记者从市外侨办了解到，1月18日，我市与土耳其伊兹密尔市正式结为友好城市。" ("Recently, the reporter learned from the Municipal Overseas Chinese Affairs Office that on January 18 our city [Xiamen] and Izmir, Turkey, officially became sister cities." I fully agree with you and WP:NOENG that English sources are better than non-English ones. Here, I searched for one to no avail. I only found older sources that say that a letter of intent had been signed, unlike this source that confirms that an agreement has taken effect. – Finnusertop (talk ⋅ contribs) 14:56, 11 February 2018 (UTC)Reply
@Finnusertop: Thanks for your reply. In my opinion, first of all a footnote that just reads "179. "厦门国际友城增至20个" 厦门网" without any English translation, is not acceptable in the English wikipedia. I guess it’s the name of a newspaper with some date: this should definitely be in English. Next, if by clicking on the link you reach a page of news (with apparently a number of different news) entirely in Chinese characters, it is not acceptable either to have no indication of where to look: where to look, together with an English translation (just as you did above) should be provided.Sapphorain (talk) 15:37, 11 February 2018 (UTC)Reply
Would this do, Sapphorain:
厦门国际友城增至20个 [Xiamen's international friendship cities increased to 20]. Xiamen Daily (in Chinese). 11 February 2018. Retrieved 11 February 2018. 近日，记者从市外侨办了解到，1月18日，我市与土耳其伊兹密尔市正式结为友好城市。[Recently, the reporter learned from the Municipal Overseas Chinese Affairs Office that on January 18 our city [Xiamen] and Izmir, Turkey, officially became sister cities.]
– Finnusertop (talk ⋅ contribs) 17:15, 11 February 2018 (UTC)Reply
Yes, this is much better, thank you! Sapphorain (talk) 17:59, 11 February 2018 (UTC)Reply

Baoding – Sønderborg

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Latest comment: 1 year ago64 comments3 people in discussion

The most relevant sources say that this was meant to be a sister city relationship, but it was transformed into a friendship city cooperation: (Project Zero/Bright Green Business: ...transformed into a more robust Friendship city cooperation...; Danish Energy Agency, p. 36: ...developed into a formal cooperation agreement during 2009–2011.) Only the Chinese sources refer to it as sister city relationship, but it is necessary not to take it literally, because they often do not distinguish between forms of cooperation and include under the term "sister city" even lower forms of cooperation, or they are boasted as sister cities within the framework of China's foreign policy, even though they are not. For these reasons, I am removing this link. FromCzech (talk) 20:07, 25 February 2023 (UTC)Reply

Did you carefully read my four reference links and additional notes in the original article? The time you gave was 2011, and the time I gave was April 2012 when the sister cities made friends. Please read more about the expressions of sister cities in different European languages, and don't look at China through the glasses of arrogance and prejudice, especially using the obviously derogatory word "boasted". Webclinic (talk) 14:50, 26 February 2023 (UTC)Reply
Both the references I mentioned are from 2014 and describe the current situation. Also in the Danish mutation of Project Zero, the terms "partnerskab" and "Friendship City partnerskab" are used instead of "venskabsbyer", which is the Danish equivalent of "sister cities". Please do not confuse Danish with some European languages (German, Czech, Polish), where the equivalent of the term "sister cities" contains the root of the word "partner".
I apologize for using a derogatory word, I didn't know it was derogatory. I didn't know how to express my thoughts and I used Google Translator, and this is what he used. I look at China based on experience based on long-term work in the field of sister cities. FromCzech (talk) 16:10, 26 February 2023 (UTC)Reply
Venskabsby of Danish equals to sistercity of English and equals to 友好城市 of Chinese is proved by wikipedia.I have repeated many times that the relationship of sister cities is expressed differently in different languages.
Since you don't believe the Authority of "The Danish Energy Agency and Danish Ministry of Housing, Urban and Rural Affairs " or Embassy of the People's Republic of China in the Kingdom of Denmark or "projectzero.dk",I'm really speechless.
As you say,I searched "venskabsby Baoding"on google,and find the Danish langauge information "Baoding i Kina blev venskabsby med Sønderborg i 2012, og der har igennem tiden været flere gensidige delegationsbesøg."(a1) and "Sønderborgs kinesiske venskabsby, Baoding, ligger i Hebei-provinsen" (a2), and "Solcellerne er fra Kinas førende solcellefabrik Yingli Solar i Baoding, som er Sønderborgs kinesiske venskabsby. "(a3),and"I 2012 indgik ProjectZero en sam- arbejdsaftale med den kinesiske millionby Baoding, som også er Sønderborgs venskabsby. "(a4), and newspaper"i april 2012 på en uges besøg i Kina. Hovedformålet med turen var at underskrive en venskabsby-aftale med byen Baoding"(a5)
"A sister city partnership between Sonderborg and Baoding city was initiated by WWF in 2008 and developed into a formal cooperation agreement during 2009–2011." in (green_urban_denmark_eng.pdf) is the English transformed file expression content of the webs b1/b2/b3/b4. The whole timeline is logical--- Baodings viceborgmester Ma besøger Sønderborg og underskriver sistercity-aftale med Sønderborg in 2010 and jointly in December 2011 announced a Friendship City Relationship and then the two cities signed a sisercity agreement in Baoding, China in April 2012(a1/a2/a3/a4). Webclinic (talk) 16:59, 26 February 2023 (UTC)Reply
Ok, that's a good argument. Those are the sources you could have listed right at the beginning instead of the ones that didn't call it a sister city relationship and there wouldn't have been this misunderstanding. I'll put it back there. FromCzech (talk) 17:20, 26 February 2023 (UTC)Reply
No,Your explanation reply is really pale. I made "2012's" Danish Ministry website and Chinese Embassy links and Baoding's Foreign Affairs Office links at the beginning.You changed without talk with me.I update links, but you changed again before my reply on talks.It looks like you're being aggressive with other editors. Webclinic (talk) 17:52, 26 February 2023 (UTC)Reply
Chinese Embassy and Baoding's Foreign Affairs Office are not WP:RS, the Danish Ministry website is a RS but it wouldn't count towards due weight because it isn't independent. Horse Eye's Back (talk) 18:12, 26 February 2023 (UTC)Reply
As you say,Baoding's Foreign Affairs Office (gov.cn)are not WP:RS, why are there so many "gov.cn"s exiting in References?And at the very beginning,I used bilingual reference links to add every sister city of Baoding in case it was considered unreliable.Why did @FromCzech delete all the second reference of each sister city?
And why Chinese Embassy gov.cn is not realiable? Webclinic (talk) 18:31, 26 February 2023 (UTC)Reply
This is not a well done page, don't use what is currently there as an example of good work because it isn't. Chinese Embassies have an annoying habit of lying, what they report can't be relied upon to be accurate. Horse Eye's Back (talk) 18:34, 26 February 2023 (UTC)Reply
Show me the evidence about "Chinese Embassies have an annoying habit of lying" except "the Embassy attack" news .It is a very serious allegation!I searched "Chinese Embassies lies" on google,the accusations of lies often happens between embassies, not an individual. I cannot understand editors edit this Artile/Item about China with full of discrimination or mistrust against China. Webclinic (talk) 19:21, 26 February 2023 (UTC)Reply
If all they've done is lied about "the Embassy attack" news thats the end of it, just that is enough. See WP:RS. Horse Eye's Back (talk) 19:35, 26 February 2023 (UTC)Reply
Not exactly! The reason I want to exclude the Embassay Attack news is that there always are lies in All countries. Attacks in the geographical area surrounding the embassy always involve the sovereignty of the country. For example,1998 United States embassy bombings、United States bombing of the Chinese embassy in Belgrade、2012_Benghazi_attack,中国驻缅甸使馆遇袭事件、North Korean Embassy in Madrid incident、Chinese Embassy in Bishkek bombing、Bombing of the Russian embassy in Kabul、Clash at the Consulate General of China, Manchester、2011 attack on the Israeli Embassy in Egypt, and so on, every government has his own statement and different language Wikipedia versions exit. Not all countries would delimit that as a Terrorist_attack. There are always lies between countries or embassies with subsequent military or diplomatic solutions. So the Embassay Attack news is not a reliable source, even not enough to define whether any embassy has a lying habit or not. It is nonsense. Webclinic (talk) 20:22, 26 February 2023 (UTC)Reply
That makes no sense, for one embassy grounds generally aren't sovereign... Thats a widely believed myth. What does Clash at the Consulate General of China, Manchester have to do with the rest of those? Horse Eye's Back (talk) 20:34, 26 February 2023 (UTC)Reply
Well, your point--- Diplomatic_immunity is a myth. I have nothing to say. I have already written that the news of the attack on the embassy always would be stated by countries differently even contradictory . The solution to such incident disputes (mutual accusations of lies) is generally by force or diplomatic means.I mentioned the Manchester incident as an example of accusation of Diplomatic immunity. Webclinic (talk) 21:12, 26 February 2023 (UTC)Reply
See Embassy#Extraterritoriality "Contrary to popular belief, diplomatic missions sometimes do not enjoy full extraterritorial status and are generally not sovereign territory of the represented state." Nobody mentioned diplomatic immunity at all. The Manchester incident is not an attack on an embassy. Horse Eye's Back (talk) 21:34, 26 February 2023 (UTC)Reply
See: Siege_of_the_International_Legations"The British, American, French, Italian, German, Japanese, and Russian military guards each took responsibility for the defense of their respective legations..." ， clauses in Boxer_Protocol， List_of_people_who_took_refuge_in_a_diplomatic_mission Webclinic (talk) 21:39, 26 February 2023 (UTC)Reply
What am I supposed to be seeing there? The links don't support your argument. Horse Eye's Back (talk) 21:39, 26 February 2023 (UTC)Reply
My argument is "the Embassay Attack news is not the evidence of lying accusation". An individual either you or me should not think "Chinese Embassies have an annoying habit of lying" with "the Embassay Attack news". Webclinic (talk) 21:50, 26 February 2023 (UTC)Reply
Clash at the Consulate General of China, Manchester isn't an attack on a diplomatic mission, its an attack by the members of the diplomatic mission against the public. I don't understand your second sentence, I can't parse the English into something meaningful. Horse Eye's Back (talk) 21:54, 26 February 2023 (UTC)Reply
Your SEE is just contradictory with my SEE,please read the Besieged history Siege_of_the_International_Legationsand clauses in Boxer_Protocol. Webclinic (talk) 21:57, 26 February 2023 (UTC)Reply
I think history is always similar, in the past embassies and churches were attacked by people who were against Christianity and foreigners, now the embassy is attacked by people who are against Chinese Communist Party and China.In the past, the troops of the eight countries defended the embassy, and now Chinese staff guard the embassy.Well,both past and present, all the local people think that diplomatic missions sometimes do not enjoy full extraterritorial status and are usually not the sovereign territory of the representative state. Webclinic (talk) 22:07, 26 February 2023 (UTC)Reply
You should probably find a different hobby then, see WP:RIGHTGREATWRONGS. Editing wikipedia means to the largest extent possible not substituting what you think for what reliable sources state. Horse Eye's Back (talk) 22:09, 26 February 2023 (UTC)Reply
Using secondary reliable sources from media is better than Chinese or Danish Embassy as we all know.But it does not mean "Chinese Embassies have an annoying habit of lying".This is a deliberate and baseless accusation.Please withdraw your prejudice. Webclinic (talk) 05:59, 27 February 2023 (UTC)Reply
You also have an annoying habit of not telling the truth, for example you said that the Clash at the Consulate General of China, Manchester involved the consulate/embassy being attacked and the staff defending it but thats not what WP:RS say happen. They say that the consulate staff attacked peaceful protesters. Horse Eye's Back (talk) 06:08, 27 February 2023 (UTC)Reply
You can't take your opinion astruth and call someone else's view a lie. Webclinic (talk) 06:28, 27 February 2023 (UTC)Reply
Attacking or insulting the CCP in front of the Chinese embassy is equivalent to attacking or insulting Christianity or Catholicism in front of the cathedral. For many Western countries, religion is the national belief authority. For China, the CCP is the national belief authority. Webclinic (talk) 06:34, 27 February 2023 (UTC)Reply
In "many Western countries" you can have a peaceful protest outside of a church/cathedral/temple/mosque/whatever, it happens all the time. Nobody gets attacked. Horse Eye's Back (talk) 06:49, 27 February 2023 (UTC)Reply
Peaceful? Are you kidding me?中国驻曼彻斯特总领事馆殴人事件"在馆前拉起将中国共产党总书记习近平描绘为《国王的新衣》中国王的卡通画像，及“天灭中共”等标语横幅以抗议习近平当局。""In front of the museum, a cartoon portrait of Xi Jinping, the general secretary of the Communist Party of China, as the king in "The King's New Clothes" and banners with slogans such as "Heaven destroys the CCP" were pulled up to protest Xi Jinping's authorities."Would the British dare to make the same protest in front of the Queen's Palace? Webclinic (talk) 06:59, 27 February 2023 (UTC)Reply
What about that isn't peaceful? Yes, people protest in front of the Queen's Palace[1]... And in front of Parliament[2]... And in front the White House[3]... And in front of Congress... In front of the Pentagon... in front of the Supreme Court... etc... etc... etc... All very normal. Horse Eye's Back (talk) 07:07, 27 February 2023 (UTC)Reply
I don't mean that Xi Jinping is the king, but I mean he is the head of a nation, similar to the symbolism of the Queen of England. Webclinic (talk) 07:01, 27 February 2023 (UTC)Reply
People protest in front of the White House (the home of the American President) every single day. Horse Eye's Back (talk) 07:07, 27 February 2023 (UTC)Reply
What you call a protest is not the same thing as what I call a protest.Protests should not contain insults to their country's sovereignty or those in power or head of state. Webclinic (talk) 07:14, 27 February 2023 (UTC)Reply
Its actually pretty hard to imagine a protest in " many Western countries" without insults to their or another country's sovereignty or those in power or head of state. See Fuck Joe Biden for more on that. Is this also not a protest? Horse Eye's Back (talk) 07:19, 27 February 2023 (UTC)Reply
Well,so it is still a peaceful protest? Fuck Joe Biden happen in somewhere but not in front the White House. Webclinic (talk) 07:24, 27 February 2023 (UTC)Reply
Yeah, thats still a peaceful protest. FJB happens in from of the White House, what makes you think it doesn't? Horse Eye's Back (talk) 07:27, 27 February 2023 (UTC)Reply
Is Occupy Wall Street also peaceful? What a joke! Webclinic (talk) 07:32, 27 February 2023 (UTC)Reply
Yes for the most part it has been. Horse Eye's Back (talk) 07:50, 27 February 2023 (UTC)Reply
FJB involved in a lawsuit,although it didn't happen in front of the White House. Show your evidence of "FJB happens in from of the White House". Webclinic (talk) 07:50, 27 February 2023 (UTC)Reply
Is 1989_Tiananmen_Square_protests_and_massacre peaceful? Webclinic (talk) 07:29, 27 February 2023 (UTC)Reply
Yes, that is one of the most famous examples of a peaceful protest being brutally crushed in history. Horse Eye's Back (talk) 07:50, 27 February 2023 (UTC)Reply
Our definition of peaceful is different.When a government crackdown or arrest or violence occurs during the protest, I no longer think the whole process is peaceful. And what I want to emphasize is that every country has a different constitution, and the American or British constitution should not be used to judge the legitimacy of protests around the world. Webclinic (talk) 07:57, 27 February 2023 (UTC)Reply
The "peaceful" refers to the protesters alone, it doesn't preclude there being a violent response to the peaceful protest. Nor does containing insults to their or another country's sovereignty or those in power or head of state mean that it isn't a protest. Horse Eye's Back (talk) 08:03, 27 February 2023 (UTC)Reply
Nonsense.If fjb is considered reasonably civilized, why was it replaced by Let's Go Brandon? Brandon Brown himself has expressed displeasure. Political correctness is really overdone by some people like you.Total disrespect for other countries' customs. Webclinic (talk) 08:14, 27 February 2023 (UTC)Reply
I think you misunderstand, in the Clash at the Consulate General of China, Manchester it was the staff of the consulate who disrespected another countries' customs. It is the custom in the UK to allow peaceful protests. Horse Eye's Back (talk) 08:27, 27 February 2023 (UTC)Reply
I think you misunderstood too. In the clash at the Chinese Consulate General in Manchester, it was the protesters who did not respect Chinese customs. It is customary in China not to simply verbally attack or insult its leaders or the ruling party, otherwise it will not be regarded as a peaceful protest. What's more, the protesters themselves are Chinese. Webclinic (talk) 08:35, 27 February 2023 (UTC)Reply
They weren't in China, they were in Manchester. Horse Eye's Back (talk) 08:36, 27 February 2023 (UTC)Reply
Ok,Is it a local custom in Manchester to use dirty words to protest anytime and anywhere? Webclinic (talk) 08:43, 27 February 2023 (UTC)Reply
Yes it is, have you never been the the UK? Horse Eye's Back (talk) 15:46, 27 February 2023 (UTC)Reply
I never go to wild places, it's too dangerous. Webclinic (talk) 23:52, 27 February 2023 (UTC)Reply
Swearing and sexual or pornographic language is rampant and fully protected in defense of free speech as long as defined as a protest.Sorry, I really can't accept this point of view at all.This is no different from an uneducated savage. Webclinic (talk) 08:23, 27 February 2023 (UTC)Reply
Its fully protected regardless of whether or not its part of a protest, thats how free speech works. English wikipedia's servers are located in the American state of Florida, this conversation is happening in Florida. You're being rather disrespectful of the local customs. Horse Eye's Back (talk) 08:27, 27 February 2023 (UTC)Reply
Is it a local custom in Florida that protests can be made using wearing and sexual or pornographic language anytime, anywhere? Webclinic (talk) 08:39, 27 February 2023 (UTC)Reply
Yes, have you never been to the USA? Horse Eye's Back (talk) 15:46, 27 February 2023 (UTC)Reply
I never go to wild places, it's too dangerous. Webclinic (talk) 23:52, 27 February 2023 (UTC)Reply
@FromCzech: you know you need reliable secondary sources to add something to a stand-alone list, right? Horse Eye's Back (talk) 18:36, 26 February 2023 (UTC)Reply
Namely,I used bilingual reference links to add every sister city of Baoding at the very beginning, in case it was considered unreliable with several hours. Webclinic (talk) 18:09, 26 February 2023 (UTC)Reply
Since I have received your reply, I wonder why you change my other edit of Baoding – Anguo and Baoding – Tangxian.Abc order is absolutely right as we all know, but have you read Anguo and Tang County items? They are both county levels, not prefecture-level cities, both under the administration of Baoding, especially in terms of foreign affairs . If their sister cities cannot be included under Baoding City, they should not be side by side with Baoding.
Also you can see the italic cities following in this list--- Hangzhou and Hangzhou – Fuyang and Hangzhou – Xiaoshan,Hulunbuir and Hulunbuir – Hailar,Suzhou, Jiangsu and Suzhou – Gusu and Suzhou – Wujiangand Suzhou – Wuzhong, Wuxi and four "Wuxi-s",and so on.
So maybe you should not change my edits. Webclinic (talk) 17:39, 26 February 2023 (UTC)Reply
Only urban districts are included under their cities, just like in other lists. County-level cities are listed separately. FromCzech (talk) 18:36, 26 February 2023 (UTC)Reply
urban district has 4 meanings, which is your saying except Quarter? Webclinic (talk) 19:45, 26 February 2023 (UTC)Reply
I have been waiting for your reply for two days. Please see District (China)、List_of_counties_in_China、Administrative divisions of China's Table.District and County-level city、County have the same level--County level (3rd). They are lower than prefecture-level cities. You should not typeset them side by side with prefecture-level cities, or they should also be modified in italics at least. Webclinic (talk) 01:56, 28 February 2023 (UTC)Reply
Sorting resembles the hierarchy of other lists as much as possible. The goal is to make the page as easy to navigate for readers as possible. County level cities and counties usually appear separately in sources, see e.g. the Kushima website, where there is no mention of Baoding and Anguo and it is written only about Anguo. FromCzech (talk) 07:12, 28 February 2023 (UTC)Reply
They should also be modified in italics at least. Webclinic (talk) 07:32, 28 February 2023 (UTC)Reply
There is no reason; in the other lists, only the districts are distinguished by italics. It could be considered removing this italic, but given the questionable benefit and the need to process all the lists, I'm in favor of leaving it as it is. FromCzech (talk) 15:03, 28 February 2023 (UTC)Reply
District and County-level city、County have the same level--County level (3rd). Your favor is a misleading to readers of County-level city and prefecture-level city.It is very unprofessional and informal. Webclinic (talk) 16:00, 28 February 2023 (UTC)Reply
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