Talk:List of universities in Scotland

Queen Margaret University just got university status as of january 2007. Rcrice 18:06, 12 February 2007 (UTC)rcrice

Should a list of universities contain colleges of higher education? Might we rename this list 'list of higher educational institutions in Scotland'?? --Doc (?) 22:52, 10 July 2005 (UTC)

I can see your point but in other lists colleges of higher education are listed and because they have degree giving status they get to be in this list, no one reading the article could be confused as to which are Universities and which are higher education institutions, so I defend their right to be there.

University of Strathclyde date

I've just changed the University of Strathclyde's date from 1796 to 1964 - the date it actually became a University. I have sympathy with those who have pride in Strathclyde's long history through its previous incarnations back to 1796, but if you use that to date it then you can justify a lot of strange things. eg. If tomorrow they upgraded an school/college with roots back to the 14th century to University status, could you call it 'the oldest University in Scotland' even though it's just been created? aldaden 12:13, 18 October 2007 (UTC)

Sadly there's a coordinated campaign recently started by an single issue IP user (s/he uses a variety of IP addresses but his editing style is very characteristic) to pretend that Strathclyde, rather than its precursor institutions, dates back to 1796. No discussion, just blind repeated insertion of the same text, sometimes poorly formatted. Ho hum. Jonathan A Jones (talk) 11:23, 28 August 2013 (UTC)

I just put a request on the talk page for the latest IP. He/She probably won't see it but asked them to come and talk about it anyway rather than just changing. Can but hope Aldaden (talk) 03:09, 30 August 2013 (UTC)

Thanks. I'm very grateful for the involvement of other editors. Similar events have been happening on about a dozen pages; in almost all cases, as here, thet IP editor refusese to get involved on talk pages, but just reverts his/her changes, usually with inaccurate edit summaries. It's important to have third parties involved to help prevent me falling into similar errors! Jonathan A Jones (talk) 06:07, 30 August 2013 (UTC)

Have requested semi-protection. Was looking at table to see if could add column for a date other than when officially became University but just can't see any way it would work. All educational organisations could have gone through several incarnations before they became a University and just can't see how it would work. Also over-complicates something so simple. Haven't looked but bet on similar lists it will the way it is now with the official date listed. Aldaden (talk) 01:53, 3 September 2013 (UTC)

In fact many places on the web do list it as being founded in 1796 implying that that's the date that should be considered the date for the start of the University. I'm not opposed to it really that much but point is it should be discussed here. The article for Strathclyde shows the complication: Many places where it is mentioned on the web say things like "Founded as Anderson's University" skirting around the fact that they then removed the "University" suffix because they'd just given themselves the name without it being recognised by any legal authority. Think that might be a result of good PR by Strathclyde Aldaden (talk) 02:13, 3 September 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for the request and the comments above. It is indeed horribly complex, but probably less messy than the London Universities. Note that Strathclyde only used the title "Anderson's University" between 1828 and 1887; before 1828 it went by "Anderson's Institution" or "The Andersonian Institution". Jonathan A Jones (talk) 06:26, 3 September 2013 (UTC)

Newest University

Anybody know when the Scottish Agricultural College was founded ? - it entered the university sector formally in August 2008 so should perhaps be listed as the newest university.Zagubov (talk) 11:43, 12 August 2009 (UTC)

RSAMD

Should the Royal Scottish Academy of Music and Drama be included in this list? It is a charted and ancient institution which gives out university level degrees? Or would it belong in another list with the likes of the Glasgow School of Art etc? The Welsh University list includes the Welsh equivalent of the RSAMD. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.71.59.99 (talk) 09:11, 3 October 2009 (UTC)

SAC and RSAMD are two of many higher education institutions which don't have university status, see List of further education colleges in Scotland. Jonathan Oldenbuck (talk) 09:24, 28 April 2010 (UTC)

I added a short section on the non-university HEIs. hope it clarifies the above points. Thanks, Jonathan Oldenbuck (talk) 17:16, 6 July 2010 (UTC)

QS Rankings

The QS rankings of the ancients should be added to this page as well. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jalba51 (talk • contribs) 09:50, 20 April 2013 (UTC)

Date of foundation

Due attention should be given to date of foundation.

Below is an excerpt from the talk page of List of UK universities by date of foundation

Date of foundation or establishment is the common criteria and should be used for defining. Below are some of the issues which arise if only the date of royal charter is taken into account.

KCL: "In 2003, the College was granted degree-awarding powers in its own right, as opposed to through the University of London, by the Privy Council. This power remained unexercised until 2007, when the College announced that all students starting courses from September 2007 onwards would be awarded degrees conferred by King's itself, rather than by the University of London. The new certificates however still make reference to the fact that King's is a constituent college of the University of London." Also, Lampeter was St David's "College" in 1822 ("The university was founded in 1822 as St David's College (Coleg Dewi Sant), becoming St David's University College (Coleg Prifysgol Dewi Sant) in 1971, when it became part of the federal University of Wales")("In 2010 it merged with Trinity University College (under its 1822 charter) to create the University of Wales, Trinity Saint David") and so it technically became an university in 2010!

Durham was granted Royal charter in 1837 and NOT 1832.

Bangor received RC in 1885 and NOT 1884

London School of Economics: "The London School of Economics was founded in 1895 by Beatrice and Sidney Webb, initially funded by a bequest of £20,000[24][25] from the estate of Henry Hunt Hutchinson. Hutchinson, a lawyer[24] and member of the Fabian Society, left the money in trust, to be put "towards advancing its [The Fabian Society's] objects in any way they [the trustees] deem advisable". The five trustees were Sidney Webb, Edward Pease, Constance Hutchinson, William de Mattos and William Clark. The LSE records that the proposal to establish the school was conceived during a breakfast meeting on 4 August 1894, between the Webbs, Graham Wallas and George Bernard Shaw. The proposal was accepted by the trustees in February 1895 and LSE held its first classes in October of that year, in rooms at 9 John Street, Adelphi, in the City of Westminster." It was a "School" and not an University all this time till,

"The school joined the federal University of London in 1900, becoming the university's Faculty of Economics and awarding degrees of the University from 1902.[28] Expanding rapidly over the following years, the school moved initially to the nearby 10 Adelphi Terrace, then to Clare Market and Houghton Street. The foundation stone of the Old Building, on Houghton Street, was laid by King George V in 1920; the building was opened in 1922." therefore it cannot be classified as a separate university. and it never received its Royal Charter.

Royal Holoway "Royal Holloway, University of London (RHUL) is a constituent "college" of the University of London." Again, not an "University"

Aberystwyth University has NOT received Royal charter. "Founded in 1872 as University College Wales, Aberystwyth became a founder member of the University of Wales in 1894 and changed its name to the University College of Wales, Aberystwyth. In the mid-1990s, the university again changed its name to the University of Wales, Aberystwyth. On 1 September 2007, the University of Wales ceased to be a federal university and Aberystwyth became independent again. However, students enrolled from the 2009/2010 academic year onwards, or whose first year of study was in the 2008/2009 academic year, can choose to receive their degree from the University of Wales or Aberystwyth University."

Queen Mary: this is the biggest issue. "In April 1929 the College Council decided it would take the steps towards applying to the Privy Council for a Royal Charter, but on the advice of the Drapers' Company first devised a scheme for development and expansion, which recommended amongst other things to reamalgamate the People's Palace and the College, with guaranteed provision of the Queen's Hall for recreational purposes, offering at least freedom of governance if not in space"

"Queen Mary and Westfield College was established by Act of Parliament and the granting of a Royal charter in 1989, following the merger of Queen Mary College (incorporated by charter in 1934) and Westfield College (incorporated in 1933).[1] The Charter has subsequently been revised three times: in 1995 (as a result of the merger of the College with the Barts and the London School of Medicine and Dentistry); in 2008 (as a result of the Privy Council awarding the College Degree Awarding Powers; and in July 2010 (following a governance review)."

So this received its royal charter in 1934/1989 and NOT 1885.

So clearly all the universities are listed on dates of foundation and NOT on royal charter. So if you need, please create a page separately as mentioned above for universities based on RC. 101.212.67.232 (talk) 14:56, 2 September 2013 (UTC)

Firstly, please don't obliterate other people's comments, it's considered rude (I've restored them and moved this to the end). Second, none of the above is relevant to the list of universities in Scotland, since none of your examples relate to a Scottish institution. All the institutions listed on this page are given by the year in which they became universities. That is the only criteria. So Heriot Watt isn't listed as 1821, RGU isn't listed as 1750, and yes, Strathclyde is not listed as 1796. The current situation on this page is well established and consistent, regardless of what information goes into other pages. Please don't change this page again without further reasoned discussion. Thanks, Jonathan Oldenbuck (talk) 15:37, 2 September 2013 (UTC)

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