Talk:List of vegans/Archive 1

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Lawrence of Arabia was a vegan

As painstakingly described in the book 'Hero' by Michael Korda, page 6 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Clf99 (talk • contribs) 12:30, 10 February 2011 (UTC)

Alicia Silverstone is not a vegan

• http://my-face-is-on-fire.blogspot.com/2010/05/flirting-with-hypocrisy-kinda-diet.html —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.198.195.234 (talk) 22:33, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

Common is not a vegan

• http://www.ecorazzi.com/2009/02/03/rapper-common-talks-about-his-pescatarian-diet-charity-work/
• http://vegetarianstar.com/2010/05/11/rapper-common-knows-fish-isnt-just-wright-for-vegetarians/
• http://celebrifi.com/gossip/Rapper-Common-Knows-Fish-Isnt-Just-Wright-For-Vegetarians-2453044.html
• http://www.happycow.net/famous/common/ —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.198.195.234 (talk) 22:31, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

Peter Singer not a vegan

• http://www.abolitionistapproach.com/the-luxury-of-death/
• http://www.answers.com/topic/peter-singer
• http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2006/05/chew-right-thing

Singer states that he is "largely a vegan" or a "flexible vegan" (occasionally eats non-meat animal products) which does not adhere to the definition of veganism as stated by the Vegan Society of the UK. Ajkochanowicz (talk) 14:11, 7 August 2009 (UTC)

Jennifer Connelly not a vegan

• http://www.vegpage.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=925:jennifer-connelly-no-longer-a-vegan&catid=29:main-news
• http://www.ok.co.uk/celebnews/view/5063/Connelly-My-son-broke-my-veganism-/

Ajkochanowicz (talk) 19:42, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

Russel Simmons

I took Russel Simmons out of the list, because he's a strict vegetarian and not a vegan as it fits the definition of the Wikipedia article "Veganism is a diet and lifestyle that seeks to exclude the use of animals for food, clothing, or any other purpose.". source: [[1]] —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.166.174.107 (talk) 18:11, 24 August 2008 (UTC)

Paul McCartney

McCartney is not a vegan. He eats dairy, etc. Just not meat. His old wife influenced him to become a vegetarian.

Him talking about being a vegetarian. —Preceding unsigned comment added by DocHolliday2006 (talk • contribs) 22:41, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

yes, but they both experienced in veganism. the article regards vegans in present and past —Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.132.89.198 (talk) 12:50, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

I think I remember reading somewhere that Paul isn't a vegan, but I can't find a source. Can someone provide some reliable reference(s) either way? n-k, 01:19, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

Weird Al

Weird al is a VEGETARIAN, not a vegan. A link to a random website that does not in turn quote HIM is not viable. You have to link to an interview, quote, etc. of HIM SAYING IT. 70.16.222.242 (talk) —Preceding comment was added at 19:26, 9 February 2008 (UTC)

You're right. There is no reliable source that states that Weird Al is a vegan. The current source at the International Vegetarian Union actually uses Wikipedia as it's reference, even though Wikipedia had no reference! What a mess. I am going to remove the current citation and do some investigating. n-k, 01:22, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

Margaret Cho?

Is there any better confirmation that Margaret Cho is vegan? The current source quotes her as saying she's “a bad vegan, because sometimes I make a mistake and eat chicken.” Unsubstantiated hearsay, I realize, but I stood in line behind the woman at a taco stand in 2000 and she ordered a big beef burrito! 70.184.72.38 02:03, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

She makes jokes about vegans and says vegans are "hungry." Somehow I doubt she's really a vegan. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.96.98.58 (talk) 16:32, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

Some Cleanup Was Done

I happened upon this page on May 6th, 2007 and I made some edits. There were a bunch of unsourced vegans and some vegans that sourced back to Wikipedia that I deleted. There also were a lot of people that are considered vegetarians by the media and by themselves that were on this list. It seems that the previous people who added names either didn't know the correct definition of a vegan, or were trying to push a vegan agenda. A quick search on google of all of the people I deleted clearly showed that they weren't vegan. I can't police this list every day, but someone needs to make sure that the names put on the list are correct. Hdog13 00:12, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

List of Vegetarians???

What happened to the page "List of Vegetarians"?

It was deleted. See Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of vegetarians. Iolakana|^T 18:42, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

It is still on answers.com: http://www.answers.com/topic/list-of-vegetarians Q0 08:54, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

Why was it deleted?

Bill Maher

Bill Maher in a 2005 interview said he is not vegetarian, but ate meat rarely. He should be listed rather on the list of vegetarians as a pesco-vegetarian. Idleguyspal 05:18, 4 December 2005 (UTC)

David Lange

An anon added David Lange to this list a month or so ago, and also stated in his article that he was a vegan. I have been unable to find any confirmation of this, and a question on Talk:David Lange has gone unanswered. I have commented out the sentence in that article for the time being. If anyone here has a reference to back the claim, please note it at Talk:David Lange.-gadfium 05:36, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

That claim has been discredited. This anon has added similar claims to a number of articles, and is being reverted whenever detected.-gadfium 05:15, 27 November 2005 (UTC)

I've created a section at Vandalism in progress/Long term alerts for the "Vegan vandal".-gadfium 19:10, 22 December 2005 (UTC)

Dallas Austin

An anon added Dallas Austin to this list a month or so ago, and also stated in his article that he was a vegan. I have been unable to find any confirmation of this, and a question on Talk:Dallas Austin has gone unanswered.

Dallas Austin is a Vegan vandal victim and is often used is people exchanges as well. For example [2] where Dallas Austin was exchanged by André 3000 who is another VVV. KittenKlub 12:23, 6 January 2006 (UTC)

I deleted Andre 3000

Andre 3000 is only a dietary vegan. he wears fur and his upcoming clothing line is going to include (real) fur.

Vegan by definition does not mean you don't sell fur, re-adding Sherurcij ^{(talk) (Terrorist Wikiproject)} 00:51, 12 January 2006 (UTC)

Huh? I don't know which definition of veganism you are referring to, but the one on Wikipedia says "Veganism is a philosophy and lifestyle which seeks to exclude — as far as is possible and practical — all forms of exploitation of, and cruelty to, animals for food, clothing or any other purpose ..."

Under the reasonable assumption that avoiding the purchase of fur (including for resale) would be possible and practical for Andre 3000, this means the deletion was entirely justified. I'm aware of the dangers of a "more vegan than thou" mindset, but consciously paying people to kill and skin mammals for clothing is one of the things that is truly incompatible with veganism. In fact, I very much doubt that Andre 3000 would call himself a vegan, much less by the same definition as the one cited in Wikipedia.

He is now listed as a vegetarian, which is accurate because vegetarianism, by definition, characterizes only a dietary life-style, by the way. Aragorn2 18:59, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

A vegan who wears fur is a totally poser vegan. XamiXiarus 07:14, 9 March 2006 (UTC)

Putting judgements aside, I gotta go with taking Mr. 3000 off the V-list. Morganfitzp 15:50, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

well im sure there are lots of people on this list who are just deitary vegans so you got to delete them as well

Yes, by definition, Andre 3000 is a vegan. As far as judgment goes, if you inhabit concrete buildings or ever use a bike, you are already using animal products. A vegan should do what they can, and as far as I know, Andre does not tout fur and leather, only is indifferent towards it.

Isn't there a name for someone who is vegan in diet only? Perhaps they should be included but with an asterisk. Most people think of the dietary restrictions involved in being vegan rather than other considerations. He should be included with a note.--Gloriamarie 20:21, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

There is a name for someone who is vegan in diet only - unfortunately ovo-lacto-vegetarians stole it as it is "vegetarian". I think people on this list should live like the definition on wikipedia defines it - and selling fur IS avoidable in a practical context. -- Paul Hilbert —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.136.172.51 (talk) 14:57, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

people who do not eat animal products but wear or use animal products are called "strict vegetarians" not "vegans". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.93.192.71 (talk) 02:29, 3 May 2009 (UTC)

Cleanup of the list of People

All the entries added by the Vegan Vandal or indirectly added (because they appeared in the category as a result of the addition by our little friend) have been removed. The people list today ( 12:26, 8 January 2006 (UTC) ) consists of those people who were initially identified by others on their pages or who were verified as such. KittenKlub 12:26, 8 January 2006 (UTC)

A removal doesn't mean that the person is not a vegan, but that we need verification first. KittenKlub 12:27, 8 January 2006 (UTC)

The website http://www.adherents.com/largecom/fam_vegan.html - which is the reference for a number of the people on this list - quotes this article as its source for the "Additional Vegans" section. So I don't think it should be used as a reference here, because that's just going round in circles. Vclaw 00:47, 11 January 2006 (UTC)

Ted Nugent is listed amongst the musicians (songstress). I went to delete him but it didn't appear on the edit page???

I reverted the Nugent addition as I considered his inclusion blatant vandalism. Maybe my revert happened while you were editing? tartaruga 19:49, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

I've renamed the Singers category into Musicians

Because not all of them are singers. XamiXiarus 07:18, 9 March 2006 (UTC)

Musicians/Bands

Seems like this could be consolidated. Listing individual band members when the whole band is cited as vegan is redundant. Morganfitzp 15:47, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

I've removed Conor Oberst from this list since several sources now refer to him as being a "pescetarian" including the wikipedia entry on him. Keith, 7 Aug 2006

I have removed them anyway. Iolakana•T 18:25, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

Removal of (most) of the article

Unsuprisingly, most of the atricle is uncited. I have removed all of them, per this edit. Iolakana•T 18:25, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

Sources

In addition to many names being unsourced (and removed) I've removed others for varying reasons.

Many cited a list at the Vegan Society which says it is a list of "purported" vegans and that it could be wrong. That is a pretty bad source for facts.

Next is the ivu site. This can be updated by anyone via annonymous form. While some give sources, it is NOT a reliable source in and of itself. Check the source listed on the page and give it as a source.

Please specifically note that the adherents site quotes this very wikipedia article as its source. This is a circular reference, not a source (we say we got it from them, they say they got it from us...). Mdbrownmsw 16:25, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

Please be sure the page you cite actually says the person is a vegan.

Vegan: "95% vegan" or "not completely vegan" or "mostly vegan" are not the same as "vegan" (or there would be no need for the qualifiers. Given how little meat is actually in it, a McDonald's hamburger is "mostly vegan", as are their fries. Mdbrownmsw 16:37, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

Happycow also identifies its list as "unverified" from "various sources". Mdbrownmsw 16:41, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

Ditto for famousveggie.com. Mdbrownmsw 16:43, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

Wikipedia pages (and pages based on them) cannot be sources for wikipedia because, um, wikipedia says so. Mdbrownmsw 16:48, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

imdb is also user edited and says "However keep in mind that our service is provided for the information of users only. It is not provided with the intention that users rely upon the information for any purposes." Mdbrownmsw 17:35, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

Notable

I have just removed several non-notable people. Basically, if they aren't "notable" enough for a wikipedia article, I removed them. Exception: people listed as considerably involved with notable groups, bands, etc (so the founder of a notable group is notable, but not every member of a notable group is notable). Mdbrownmsw 17:24, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

When is a Source Sufficient?

In your edits, you removed Mutabaruka because you read the reference to indicate that he followed a vegan diet, but possibly did not follow a vegan lifestyle. This sets the bar rather high for a list of people who are vegans, (and threatens to throw the baby out with the bathwater) especially considering the fact that many people follow a vegan lifestyle precisely by following a vegan diet and not using or wearing animal products. In the original reference that was cited, Mutabaruka says, in part, "Yes [I follow a typical vegan diet]. No animal products. I don't use animal products. I don't use it. I don't wear it. I never given my children animal products." I would be hard pressed to come up with a more definitive indication of veganism in an interview (and, as I am sure you have noticed, Mutabaruka's statement is far and above most of the other evidence of veganism in other accepted sources cited here). Mutabaruka does then (in typical Rasta fashion) call into question the use of labels and seems to suggest that all true "vegetarians" are "vegans," but this does not detract from his veganism.

I have added a further cite to the Guardian where Mutabaruka is called a vegan (analogous evidence has been sufficient in most other cites in this article) in case that helps.

To be clear: I did not set the bar, wikipedia did. Mutabaruka is a living person:

"Editors must take particular care when writing biographies of living persons and/or including any material related to living persons. These require a degree of sensitivity, and which must adhere strictly to our content policies" Wikipedia:Biographies_of_living_persons

"The article should document, in a non-partisan manner, what reliable third party sources have published about the subject and, in some circumstances, what the subject may have published about themselves."

Wikipedia:Biographies_of_living_persons

The first source did NOT say he was a vegan, which the veganism article says is "a philosophy and lifestyle". It said he followed a typical vegan diet. My cousin follows a typical Native Hawaiian diet, but is not a Native Hawaiian. The new source calls him a vegan. I have removed the first source and left the second.

Mdbrownmsw 19:34, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

At the risk of beating a dead horse (which seems especially egregious in the discussion page of an article dealing with vegans), I want to emphasize two points.

• 1) The first source does not say Mutabaruka is a "vegan," but he himself clearly indicates that he is a vegan (much more than merely following a vegan diet) by explicitly indicating that he does not eat or use animals or animal products and that he follows a lifestyle where he does not eat or wear animals and does not allow his children to do so either. The quotation above indicates such and more context can be found at the source itself. Mutabaruka's subsequent critique of the label of "vegan" had more to do with a critique of what being a vegetarian means (to Mutabaruka, anyone who eats food that is not a vegetable (e.g., honey, milk, etc.) should not consider themselves "vegetarian) than with whether or not he was a vegan. In other words, it was a question of words (and falls within a critique of the "Queen's lyric" customary to Rasta discourse as I alluded to above) and not of category.

To be more clear (and make your analogous reasoning more precise), if your cousin followed a native Hawaiian diet AND had various other requisite traits of being a native Hawaiian (such as being born in Hawaii, etc.), THEN your cousin would be a native Hawaiian. (I think there is also something to be said (although not entirely necessary for this point) about the fact that following a native HI diet does not seem to be nearly important as to whether one is a native-HIan as following a vegan diet is to someone who is vegan).

• 2) The bar I was referring to was not the care and rigorousness with which all wikipedia editors should follow (especially important, as you point out, when dealing with entries concerning living persons), but rather at what point when an article identifies an individual as vegan is it sufficient so that person can be included on this list. As I mentioned above, an interview that makes it clear that the individual follows a "lifestyle that avoids using animals and animal products for food, clothing and other purposes" (from wikipedia entry on veganism) seems to pass the normal (albeit rigorous) bar for such an entry. A Guardian article that merely mentions that Mutabaruka is a vegan hardly seems to carry the same weight (which is why I chose the interview cite over the Guardian article originally).

As a compromise, I would prefer to include both cites. However, I want to respect the considerable work you have done for this article (the careful sourcing of each individual makes it unique from any similar list I have seen anywhere), so I will merely suggest that we agree to include both cites (the Guardian cite can even appear first) unless you still see some reason not to. tartaruga 21:41, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

Agreed that Adams has a strange relationship with cheese -- at least as far back as 1999 ("I love cheese, but I can't eat it," says Adams. "I pull it all off"). His relationship with leather is less strange -- he seems to still have leather he purchased before he became vegan or that has been passed down to him. ("No, I haven't bought anything. It's all been given to me and all that stuff is used from years ago, but I haven't gone out of my way to buy things that are leather"). But with evidence of self-categorization as a vegan (as well as a vegetarian) and with evidence that he is intending, (and trying), and (to a greater or lesser extent) succeeding to follow the lifestyle of a vegan, these facts alone would not seem to necesitate his exclusion from the category.

More recent interviews and articles refer to Adams (and he refers to himself) as vegan (here[3], here[4], here[5], and here (10/31/06 Daily Record (Glasgow, Scotland) 28).

Considering that Adams refers to himself as a vegan, is referred to as a vegan, and fits within the wikipedia definition of vegan, I am returning him to the list.

Agreed that the initial cite was old and unsourced, so I will replace with one of the ones above.

And, just to avoid confusion, my unsigned edit added him in the first place. The problem of using multiple computers to edit is the danger of not remembering where I am logged in. Apologies. tartaruga 18:01, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

I was not arguing that Adams is not a vegan, only that the source given did not say he was a vegan. Mdbrownmsw 19:32, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

I think Carrie Underwood should be taken off the list. The wikipedia page says she's a vegetarian, as does her PETA "Sexiest Vegetarian Award." And I think that's debatable as there are pictures of her last year *fishing.* Not exactly a vegan, or vegetarian activity. Why is the concept so hard to understand? Here's the link to the pictures: http://www.celebritycatch.tv/picture-carrie-underwood-fishing-trip.page Munin and hugin (talk) 07:06, 14 September 2008 (UTC)

I believe the Vegan Society of the UK's definition of veganism is the best source for defining the identity. After all, they coined the word over 50 years ago. Ajkochanowicz (talk) 06:14, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

Daniel Johns (Silverchair)

He's on the list, but in his main article states that he is an ex-vegan, now vegetarian. So which is he? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 217.86.45.94 (talk) 18:24, 26 April 2007 (UTC).

Morrissey

Has Morrissey ever said that he's a vegan? --83.248.190.175 21:19, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

No but Smiths guitarist Johnny Marr has. He says "I became a vegan in 1985" in this interview from 2009 in the UK's Guardian newspaper

http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2009/jul/19/body-soul-johnny-marr —Preceding unsigned comment added by Louiseluminous (talk • contribs) 06:06, 17 October 2010 (UTC)

Gwyneth Paltrow

After her recent hospitalization, several news sources, apparently all from the same source, say she now eats "white meat and fish." The same story can be found online: http://www.google.com/search?q=%22gwyneth+paltrow%22+%22used+to+follow+a+vegan+diet+but+now%22 The source is "BANG Showbiz", an entertainment newswire used by some news organizations (and who are used as a reference in a few other wikipedia articles). -Hobocamp (talk) 20:38, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

Her cooking chicken on video: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-1201878/Veganism-SO-year--Gwyneth-Paltrow-shows-rustle-roast-chicken-dinner.html http://www.nydailynews.com/gossip/2009/07/24/2009-07-24_gwyneth_paltrow.html —Preceding unsigned comment added by 118.93.13.245 (talk) 22:24, 8 May 2010 (UTC)

Paul McCartney

Am in a bit of a rush, so haven't researched it yet, but I think it's highly unlikely that he is a vegan, since some Linda McCartney foodstuffs are not vegan. Salopian (talk) 02:41, 18 March 2008 (UTC)

"people who practice (or practiced) veganism"

Does 'practiced' refer to people on this list who died, or those who simply stopped being vegan, or both? N-lane (talk) 12:15, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

Refers to the deceased. I personally do my best to keep former or incorrectly-attributed vegans off the list and I know a lot of other do. So far, rapper "Common", Jennifer Connelly, and Clint Eastwood haven't made a reappearance.

The introduction to the article is ambiguous, since it could theoretically include living ex-vegans (and there are many). I am going to make it clearer. n-k, 20:21, 21 March 2009 (UTC)

Moby

On 4th March 2008, the Russian music site zvuki.ru published a phone interview with Moby (http://www.zvuki.ru/R/P/17817/ in Russian), in which he says that he is not a vegan anymore. N-lane (talk) 13:02, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

I wouldn't trust this Russian source since I know how deceptive similar Russian sources can be. There is no sufficient information confirming this affirmation, and in addition Moby actually owns a cafe TeaNY which is completely vegan.--Sigurdas (talk) 17:44, 7 November 2008 (UTC)

Ajkochanowicz (talk) 06:08, 13 December 2008 (UTC)I would also note that Moby provided the music for Earthlings, a documentary of the animal industry by Joaquin Phoenix. I doubt Moby has broke his veganism, but we'll let the facts speak for themselves.

This interview is not sufficient to prove that Moby is no longer a vegan. n-k, 20:23, 21 March 2009 (UTC)

Robin Quivers

I know Robin Quivers from the Howard Stern show is a recent convert to Veganism. I'm not sure if she wears fur or anything, but dietarily she espouses it. Any objections to adding her to the list?72.78.168.233 (talk) 06:59, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

Thom Yorke

I added Thom Yorke to the list, but wanting to make sure, I looked for a source to back it up. There's a bunch of conflicting reports out there. Some say vegan, some say veg. I'm wondering if I should remove it, or what?72.78.168.233 (talk) 07:24, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

Not a vegan. I recently emailed Thom Yorke's manager to enquire whether Thom was vegan. She replied on 2nd August 2010 saying: "Thom is a vegetarian, but as far as I know he is not a vegan" (Louise Wallis)

Oli Sykes

He is only vegetarian. (wikipedia) -- Raubhamster (talk) 20:07, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

Heaven Shall Burn

All members of the german metalcore band Heaven Shall Burn are vegan. --> http://www.skipmag.de/interview/Matthias-Voigt-HEAVEN-SHALL-BURN/ Interview with HSB Member Matthias Voigt: "Alle Mitglieder von HEAVEN SHALL BURN leben vegan" - All members of HSB are vegan -- Raubhamster (talk) 20:07, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

Maroon

Germanys Hardcore Band Maroon is also vegan. see: lyrics to "still believe in what as fallen apart": "A COMMITMENT FOR LIFE- VEGAN!"

-- Raubhamster (talk) 20:06, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

Clint Eastwood

Not a vegan.

• http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/14/movies/14head.html?ref=movies
• http://vegpage.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1119:article-template&catid=29:main-news&Itemid=72

Ajkochanowicz (talk) 06:05, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

• http://www.ecorazzi.com/2008/12/11/clint-eastwood-says-he-is-not-a-vegan-so-there-punk/ —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.13.97.202 (talk) 04:19, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

John Mackey is not a vegan.

John Mackey is not a vegan. He eats eggs. The fact that someone calls himself a vegan does not make him a vegan any more than calling himself an astronaut would make him an astronaut. He simply does not fit the definition of veganism by any measure, and should thus be removed from this list. --N-k, 22:50, 16 March 2009 (UTC)

The link you provided above says "Technically, I am not a pure vegan... But otherwise I'm a vegan". It is clear to me that he identifies as being a vegan, but he may not be a "pure vegan". It's a little confusing, but I'm not sure we need to be the judge and jury here. We don't need to define the term and decide who can and cannot fit within the narrow definition of our term. I believe the phrase "I'm a vegan" is enough to warrant inclusion on this list. An analogy might be religion. Someone might identify as being a Muslim, but we could have proof they don't always pray 5 times a day. Does that mean we get to decide who is and is not a True Muslim? I think, based on the link you provided, and self-identity, we should keep him on the list. I'll update the link. Perhaps a compromise would be to, in the footnote, qualify the egg part?-Andrew c ^[talk] 01:28, 17 March 2009 (UTC)

Your Muslim analogy is fallacious. By saying that he eats eggs, John Mackey is essentially saying "I'm a vegan, but I'm not a vegan." Similarly, if a self-described Muslim said he did not believe in God or the Prophet Mohammed, he would not belong in a list of Muslims. Your example of prayer five times a day is a mark of piety, not of definition. As a further example, Emperor Norton claimed to be an Emperor. Would you put him in a list of emperors? Or do we not need a judge and jury in that case? Because I'm pretty sure the judge and jury would deem Emperor Norton "not an emperor." By the way, I know this is going to stir up a lot of old controversy, but Peter Singer isn't a vegan either; he admits to eating cheese. I know I am probably going to be overruled in both of these cases, so I like your compromise proposal. Every person on this list of disputed "veganity" should have a note explaining the controversy. --N-k, 23:20, 17 March 2009 (UTC)

Christof Koch

Christof Koch is apparently not a vegan. In the reference provided he states that he is an ovo-lacto vegetarian. --n-k, 11:22, 19 March 2009 (UTC)

Ben Gibbard

According to a 2003 interview, Ben Gibbard is now a pescetarian. I am removing him from this list. n-k, 20:45, 21 March 2009 (UTC)

Mitch Brennan

I am removing Mitch Brennan from the list. He lacks a reference, and apparently there is not even a Wikipedia article about him. The current link leads to Mitch Brennan, who is a rugby player, not a musician. n-k, 01:09, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

Gillian Anderson

Gillian Anderson recommends duck salad in this article. This single source doesn't prove that she isn't vegan, but we need a definite answer. Can anyone check the print reference, or find an online one? n-k, 01:41, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

On the happy cow website its mentioned that she isn't but not confirmed again

http://www.happycow.net/famous/gillian_anderson/ —Preceding unsigned comment added by Arvnd1107 (talk • contribs) 00:08, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

Lisa Edelstein

In this interview Lisa Edelstein herself says "I’m not a vegan; I’m a vegetarian." I am removing her from the list. n-k, 01:55, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

Intro

"This is a list of vegans, and of people who consider themselves vegan."

Ths introduction might need a correction. Firstly as for "a list of vegans": the problem is, that it is as good as impossible, to check, whether somebody, who says he is vegan, in fact really is. Indeed, he could be lying; if that would be the case, Wp would be offering incorrect information, if that person is on this list. This also goes for "concidering oneself vegan". Nobody else can check, whether that's a lie or not.

A good way, to avoid this problem, is changing the introductional phrase in something like: "This is a list of noteworthy people, who publically declare to be vegan". Natubico (talk) 03:13, 31 March 2009 (UTC)

That introductory sentence sounds fine, but I fail to see how it is better than the current one. Also, some people have "declared" that they are no longer vegan. n-k, 11:29, 31 March 2009 (UTC)

Than they simply will be removed from the list and the information is updated and correct again. What's the problem? --Natubico (talk) 16:57, 17 April 2009 (UTC)

This should be edited to clarify that this is a list of well known vegans, and not every vegan in the world —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.119.225.22 (talk) 17:37, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

Natalie Portman

Natalie Portman is not a vegan. I am taking her off the list. --n-k, 23:07, 6 April 2009 (UTC)

that article is not as recent as this one, which says she is, in fact, vegan —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.93.192.71 (talk) 02:35, 3 May 2009 (UTC)

Tobey Maguire

He says he's "close to becoming a vegan" but not. I'm not sure if he should be on the list or not (with a disclaimer, of course), but I'm taking him off for now. --n-k, 03:42, 7 April 2009 (UTC)

NPOV of adding Singer

Umm if he eat animal products should he really be listed as a vegan? Even if he himself says he is "flexible vegan" are we not takeing a stance and supporting his view? Shouldn't the list just contain people that are acctualy vegan? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.70.19.6 (talk) 09:08, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

Bethany Black

No refs. Removed. All the best, Kayau (Talk to me! See what I've done! Sign my guestbook!) 13:06, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

Mo Vaughn

I'll give this a week or so and then remove it if it hasn't been sourced. It seems suspicious to me - here is a 2002 picture of Vaughn with his "Mo-Licious" sandwich, a decidedly un-vegan dish. I realize that a lot can change in eight years, but I can't find anything reliable on Vaughn as a vegan. Colinclarksmith (talk) 18:04, 12 January 2010 (UTC)

Since no reliable sources popped up, I went ahead and removed him from the list. Colinclarksmith (talk) 15:11, 28 January 2010 (UTC)

List of vegetarians

Discussion about the future of the two lists. It's a bit redundant having two lists of vegans, so I've made a couple of suggestions at Talk:List_of_vegetarians#List_of_vegans. I'd be interested in hearing what the editors on this article have to say, especially those who work on both articles. Betty Logan (talk) 21:58, 29 March 2010 (UTC)

I cast a strong vote against eliminating the List of vegans article by merging it entirely into the List of vegetarians. I've done a modest bit of work on both articles and am in favor of keeping the two articles separate. Conflating vegetarianism and veganism drives me crazy (Google does it.) Calling all vegans vegetarians is technically correct, but incomplete, just as vegetarians are technically pescetarians plus further dietary restrictions (i.e., fish.) Call a vegetarian a pescetarian, or try and merge the pescetarian article into the vegetarian article, and you'll get some angry responses. I think the List of vegetarians article looks great these days, by the way, and would love to see the same care given to the List of vegans article, but still favor their separation, as they document followers of two distinct, if related, diets. Best, Colinclarksmith (talk) 00:27, 30 March 2010 (UTC)

That would be my preference. The pesectarians used to be on the vegetarian list btw, but I culled them and moved them over to the pescetarian article. I favour having two distinct lists and moving our vegans over to here, and structuring this article like the vegetarian one: ordered by nationality, colour coded. Obviously having the same structure isn't necessary, but it would be great if we can make them brother-sister articles. Betty Logan (talk) 00:38, 30 March 2010 (UTC)

Yeah, I think that's a great idea, I'm with you. Good call on moving the pescetarians too. Colinclarksmith (talk) 03:24, 30 March 2010 (UTC)

The pescetarian thing was long ago, let's not talk about it. But, seeing that there is a kind of consensus agreement here, and seeing that there is no reason to object the proposal, this proposal has my support !vote. Kayau Voting IS evil 08:18, 30 March 2010 (UTC)

Well it seems the main editors of "List of vegetarians" all agree the vegans should come over here, so that's resolved. The issue now is the structure of the Vegan list. We'll give it a couple of weeks and see if any of the editors on this article have any objections to adopting the nationality structure and color codes of the vegetarian list. Betty Logan (talk) 07:41, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

I'm going to move all the vegans over here. I won't alter the structure of this article as yet, I'll copy the vegans into the pre-existing structure. I don't want a situation where the changes are challeneged and reverted because we'll lose all the names. It's best to get the information together first and then format it. Betty Logan (talk) 11:37, 10 April 2010 (UTC)

Common

Common is not a vegan.1 I am removing him from the list. --N-k (talk) 14:42, 17 April 2010 (UTC)

Please don't remove names from the list if someone ceases to be vegan. Alter their status and add a reference. If you remove a name there's nothing to stop people adding it back with an out of date reference at a later time, so it's more thorough if we explicitly note they are no longer vegan. Betty Logan (talk) 15:33, 17 April 2010 (UTC)

Former vegans

Betty Logan, I don't see any discussion on the talk page about including former vegans in the list. Did you make and implement this decision unilaterally? I'm not sure if ex-vegans should be included, and even if they should be, I think there should have been discussion first. --N-k (talk) 18:09, 8 May 2010 (UTC)

It's how it's done on List of vegetarians, and for a very good reason too. The problem is if someone stops being vegan and is removed from the list then you end up with a situation where they might be put back on the list with an out of date reference. Since the person is removed from the list, the more up to date reference for them no longer being a vegan is obviously lost too, so it's better to record their non-vegan status with the more up to date reference. Betty Logan (talk) 19:34, 8 May 2010 (UTC)

Okay, that makes sense. However, I would suggest that we make a new section within the article for former vegans, rather than including them in the lists of current vegans (or dead people who were vegan until they died--you know what I mean). --N-k (talk) 19:45, 8 May 2010 (UTC)

I don't mind how it's organised. If you want to set up a separate section that's ok by me. The important thing of course is that we retain all the relevant sources. Betty Logan (talk) 20:04, 8 May 2010 (UTC)

Based on that if one was a vegan for a month he deserves a listing. Either you are known as a vegan or you are not - the title of the article becomes misleading. If someone is no longer a vegan it's better to take them out and supply the links and reason why on discussion page IMHO. (Dnsh77) 11:57, 11 May 2010 (UTC)

The title is not misleading at all. It's not "people who are vegan" it's just list of vegans. That doesn't preclude people who were vegan - if it was we should technically remove dead vegans. The discussion page is for discussing the article, not for recording information. Besides, editors don't check the discussion pages before adding people so the other option is that we simply remove ex-vegans and then eventually they'll probably be re-added with out of date references. Betty Logan (talk) 12:06, 11 May 2010 (UTC)

Pretty much, that's why I got confused about Gwyneth Paltrow. See the link: it appears for her it was just a temporary diet, such people are not really vegan in a true sense of the word, what's the point of listing them? All Orthodox Christians are vegan during Lent. Additions of people with outdated links IMO should be considered as incorrect editing and removed in due course with explanations why. Wikipedia purpose is to encourage people to research their links properly before adding them. (Dnsh77) —Preceding undated comment added 12:37, 11 May 2010 (UTC).

Paltrow may have only adopted a vegan diet temporarily, but if that is not explicitly reported and she is reported to be vegan then she has been verifiably vegan. It's not Wikipedia's purpose to promote a cause, or for its editors to make judgements. Betty Logan (talk) 12:51, 11 May 2010 (UTC)

From the article's link dated May 2010: "Now, I am not a good dieter and I cannot ever do it for long -- only when there is a goal in sight, which there was in this case," writes Paltrow, who ditched the strict eating plan to chow down on fried chicken and ice cream sundaes while filming her next flick, drama Love Don't Let Me Down." As explicit IMO as you can get. 118.93.1.58 (talk) 13:03, 11 May 2010 (UTC) (that was Dnsh77 - I got logged off for some reason)

You've probably been banned for edit-warring. It may be explicit in that article but there are plenty of others that report she is vegan. It's not our job to cherry pick references to present our preferred point of view. If sources conflict then you include them all and clarify. Betty Logan (talk) 13:18, 11 May 2010 (UTC)

Probably need to add one of those "plenty" to illustrate the point. 2006 vs 2010 is a bit outdated. IMO a "vegan" doesn't mean someone who has done it a bit and likely had no intention to have it as a long term lifestyle, that's why the title may be a bit confusing. "List of people who followed a vegan diet". Just my opinion. Dnsh77 (talk) 13:33, 11 May 2010 (UTC) A section titled "Notable People Who Followed A Vegan Diet" might be a better idea. With title links on top of the page for quick reference for those who might be tempted to paste outdated links. Dnsh77 (talk) 14:04, 11 May 2010 (UTC)

This idea was suggested by N-K above and I have no problem with separating vegans and non-vegans if that's what people want to do. Betty Logan (talk) 14:09, 11 May 2010 (UTC)

The lead could be: "This is a list of notable people who are currently reported to adhere to a vegan diet. In the cases where a person's vegan status is disputed, this is noted next to their entry as "(disputed)". Notable people who used to follow a vegan diet at some point in there lives are listed in the last section."Dnsh77 (talk) 14:22, 11 May 2010 (UTC)

It probably doesn't need to be so explicit. It would be simpler to divide into three sections: curent/disputed/former and the lede could just state "This is a list of notable people who are reported to have adhered to a vegan diet at some point during their lives." The contents table would make the division self explanatory. Betty Logan (talk) 14:44, 11 May 2010 (UTC)

I actually like them grouped by occupation. I counted just 6 of the '(former)' and none of the '(disputed)'. IMO the former could be bumped into "Notable past vegans" or similar.Dnsh77 (talk) 20:12, 11 May 2010 (UTC)

That's ok by me. Betty Logan (talk) 21:45, 11 May 2010 (UTC)

You can't cite yourself as a source.

The Independent article "An ethical diet: The joy of being vegan" took all of its information on vegan celebrities from this article. Yet this article cites it seven times as "proof" that people are vegan. I am removing the article from the citation list. This article has gotten incredibly sloppy about references... --N-k (talk) 01:27, 9 May 2010 (UTC)

Have you actually read that article? It mentions some of the vegans on Wikipedia but it provides a list at the end with quotes from the people in question. It is only used as source for those cases. Betty Logan (talk) 01:53, 9 May 2010 (UTC)

Yes, I had already read the article. I don't think it's appropriate to source an article that sources this one. And although I know from other sources that those people are vegan (or at least used to be), no where in the quotes at the bottom of the page do Silverstone, Paltrow, and Harrelson actually say so. The text of the article says that they are, but the quotes don't. I'll prove it:

"My body just got so healthy and skinny, and my skin became so radiant, that I started looking fabulous anyway."

"I'd love to raise a family on a farm and grow my own food, and grow my hair down to my ankles and be a kind of punk-rock hippy."

""Yeah, milk does a body good - if you are a calf"

"I would rather die than let my kid eat instant soup,"

"There is this perception of us in this country like, 'Oh, they're quite boring, they do yoga and stay home,'"

Nothing to do with veganism. So maybe you could use it as a reference for Moby and Zephaniah, but it's probably best to just use other sources so that we can't be accused of sloppy citations.--N-k (talk) 12:02, 9 May 2010 (UTC)

The article makes it explicitly clear which part draws from Wikipedia. In the other cases it has details that clearly haven't come from our list, such as noting Woody Harrelson's 90% raw diet and giving explicit details of his diet, and the age at which Benjamin Zephania became vegan, and Gwyneth Paltrow giving her daughter a vegan birthday party. It also goes into detail about how Donald Watson's veganism came about and Heather Mills' transition to veganism. The Independent is a high quality RS and I don't see how it is compromised by just mentioning a few names on the Wikipedia list. If it wasn't clear which names had come from Wikipedia I'd agree, but in the cases of the names sourced with this article there are compelling details of their vegan lifestyles that clearly aren't self-cited. In fact the only name on there that doesn't have explicit details backing up a vegan lifestyle is Alicia Silverstone. Betty Logan (talk) 12:42, 9 May 2010 (UTC)

I've scrapped it for Donald Watson, Heather Mills, Woody Harrelson and Alicia Silverstone since there were enough references already. That leaves it currently sourcing three people. If we can find some replacement references then we can fully replace the reference, but I'd rather we replace the reference than just remove it. Betty Logan (talk) 17:19, 9 May 2010 (UTC)