Talk:List of winners and nominated authors of the Booker Prize

Incomplete

This list is incomplete: - 1969 is missing "The Public Image" by Muriel Spark and "From Scenes Like These" by G.M. Williams (Gordon Williams) - The actual 1970 award (won by "The Elected Member" by Bernice Rubens) isn't included at all. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.112.11.236 (talk) 15:39, 4 July 2016 (UTC)

Fixed 22/08/20162A02:C7D:CA64:CE00:9013:EA15:74F:5607 (talk) 00:09, 22 August 2016 (UTC)

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External links modified

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2020 Booker Prize and redlinks

Hey all, x

The specific article 2020 Booker Prize is quite noticeably redlink heavy. Very redlink heavy. I am aware that the novels are not quite that well known, given there are so many debuts, and we have to be careful about notability and importance....though all the same, what steps could we take as a community to create the articles as soon as possible? doktorb _words^deeds 21:01, 15 September 2020 (UTC)

We need to include the "longlist" nominations (which are actually a shortlist)

Each year, thirteen books are selected and announced as the "longlist". From these, six are drawn to make the "shortlist" and from those is drawn the winner. This "longlist" is what in any other context would be called a "shortlist" and is just named as such to avoid confusion with the list of six. It's not a list of all the hundreds of eligible novels published that year, but a short list of outstanding novels that have been chosen for judging. The longlist announcement is more significant for the publishing industry than the shortlist, and attracts a lot of media coverage and discussion; here are some examples and it's easy to find many more.

Wikipedia articles about novels often mention their being longlisted because, as you can see, this is often a driver of third-party coverage. When third-party coverage mentions an author as "being nominated for the Booker four times" they are usually including both longlist and shortlist nominations (apart from a few recent examples where journalists are possibly doing their research from this Wikipedia list).

So I disagree strongly with a recent edit summary that claimed the longlist "is not useful and makes the article unnecessarily bloated". It's as useful as the shortlist information and adding the longlist would not result in an especially large article. I'm happy to add the full list of nominations with sources — I'm just now adding it to Wikidata — but I want to do so on the understanding that it's not reverted and that other editors understand that the longlist is in the proper scope of this article.

Given that the distinction between shortlist and longlist is less important than between longlist and not-nominated, I would support a change in title for this article to "List of winners and nominated authors of the Booker Prize".

References

MartinPoulter (talk) 14:52, 8 November 2022 (UTC)

Requested move 16 November 2022

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved. As H. Carver has not opposed, I'm going to go ahead and close this discussion as moved. If there is any opposition, please create a new RM. Thanks. (closed by non-admin page mover) echidnaLives - talk - edits 02:03, 11 December 2022 (UTC)

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List of winners and shortlisted authors of the Booker Prize → List of winners and nominated authors of the Booker Prize – As explained in the Talk section above, there is no good reason to focus the article on shortlisted nominations rather including all nominations (which are of two kinds). There are in effect two shortlists, the more narrow of which is called the "shortlist" and the present naming of the article has been used to exclude nominations which are not on that narrow list, despite the enormous amount of third-party coverage given to the nominations which are not on the "shortlist". MartinPoulter (talk) 17:49, 16 November 2022 (UTC) — Relisting. Extraordinary Writ (talk) 06:40, 25 November 2022 (UTC)— Relisting. —usernamekiran (talk) 16:57, 3 December 2022 (UTC)

This is a placeholder reply to note that I will enter a full and proper reply later, when I have the time to put together my thoughts properly and in line with Wikipedia guidelines.

I would also add that I noted the section above and had similarly intended to reply in good time, but as an interested party (I reverted the article to remove the longlists from it) I wanted to allow space for other voices to make their opinions heard first. H. Carver (talk) 18:19, 17 November 2022 (UTC)

Thanks @H. Carver: I look forward to your input. I've since thought of another reason for renaming. This article has a section for "Writers with multiple nominations". If this section includes all nominations and we keep the article to be about just shortlisted nominations, then the numbers in this section are not going to match up with the table above. If we only include shortlisted nominations in the "multiple nominations", then we're going to spread outright falsehoods like that Hilary Mantel was nominated twice, when in reality she was nominated four times. MartinPoulter (talk) 15:40, 21 November 2022 (UTC)

I also note that the article International Booker Prize includes both longlist and shortlist nominations. MartinPoulter (talk) 16:10, 21 November 2022 (UTC)

Hi @H. Carver: It's been three weeks and the discussion has been relisted once- are we going to get your input? I'd like a decision so I can continue work on the article. Cheers, MartinPoulter (talk) 14:45, 8 December 2022 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Wikidata queries

Now that the Booker prize winners and nominees are in Wikidata, a couple of Wikidata queries can be used as checks on the content of this article. This query finds authors with multiple wins, and it agrees with the list given in this article, except that Wikidata gives the years of each win. This query finds authors with multiple nominations, and it shows that the relevant section in this article is out of date: Salman Rushdie has had seven nominations, not five, Beryl Bainbridge and J. M. Coetzee have six each, and so on. Maybe these numbers are due to someone restricting "nomination" to shortlisting, which I argue in the sections above is misleading and confusing. If the Booker Prize Foundation listing says someone has been nominated six times, we should represent them as being nominated six times. MartinPoulter (talk) 15:47, 21 November 2022 (UTC)

Sorting - some work needed

For the first couple of years, author names were input with sortkeys, as {{sort|Newby, P. H.|[[P. H. Newby]]}} etc. But then later editors abandoned this, so if you sort on author you now see a list sorted by given name, with a few exceptions (eg Irish Murdoch filing just before Muriel Spark).

The sortkey can also be created using {{sortname}}, as {{sortname|first|last}}.

If anyone is looking for a little job to do while listening to a fascinating podcast or something ... it would be good to see the authors sorting properly. The titles which start with "A" or "The" could also use some sortkeys! PamD 18:49, 30 July 2024 (UTC)