Talk:Little Red Rooster/GA1

GA Review

Article (edit | visual edit | history) · Article talk (edit | history) · Watch

Reviewer: Viriditas (talk · contribs) 19:55, 27 April 2014 (UTC)

Infobox

Resolved

• Recorded Chicago, June 1961
  • Any idea where it was recorded? The infobox in the Rolling Stones version has more information about the location, but the original doesn't. Viriditas (talk) 01:32, 28 April 2014 (UTC)

Most Chess artists in the early 60s recorded at the label's office/studio at 2120 S. Michigan Ave., but also sometimes at different studios in Chicago. I haven't been able to find a source for anything except Chicago. —Ojorojo (talk) 15:46, 28 April 2014 (UTC)

Lead

Resolved

• "Little Red Rooster" (or "The Red Rooster" as it was first titled) is a song that is a blues standard. American blues musician Howlin' Wolf recorded it in the Chicago blues style in 1961 and the song is credited to arranger and songwriter Willie Dixon.
  • I've read this several times now and I think it can be improved. Try something like: "'Little Red Rooster' (also known as 'The Red Rooster') is a twentieth century American blues standard credited to arranger and songwriter Willie Dixon. It was first recorded by American blues musician Howlin' Wolf in the Chicago blues style in 1961." Or some variation on getting to the point. Viriditas (talk) 04:03, 4 May 2014 (UTC)

Done. —Ojorojo (talk) 15:40, 4 May 2014 (UTC)

• I notice that the lead doesn't mention anything about the notable "vocalizing" of the dogs and roosters by the musical instruments in various versions. For me personally, this is a notable aspect of the song, and the body of the article hints at this notability, but I'm not certain it is notable enough for the lead. If it is, would you consider adding it? Viriditas (talk) 09:33, 28 April 2014 (UTC)

Added. —Ojorojo (talk) 15:46, 28 April 2014 (UTC)

• How do you feel about inserting a paragraph break before "English rock group the Rolling Stones..." I think it would enhance readability. Viriditas (talk) 03:48, 30 April 2014 (UTC)

Added with more commentary. —Ojorojo (talk) 15:49, 30 April 2014 (UTC)

• Although it is performed in the style of a Chicago blues, the song is rooted in the Delta blues tradition and the theme "there is no peace in the barnyard after the rooster is gone" is derived from folklore.[3]
  • You've got this cited to ref 3 in the lead. Any reason why? The folklore bit isn't supported by this cite, so I'm assuming you are citing it as a supporting ref for the quote, but even that version of the lyrics isn't supported by that cite. Do you have the refs mixed up or are you trying to do something else? Viriditas (talk) 08:48, 1 May 2014 (UTC)

This is a half-quote/half-paraphrase from Inaba's sentence on p. 221: "The theme, "There is no peace in the barnyard after the rooster is gone," was prevalent folk wisdom..." Moved it to the Background section and used the whole quote. —Ojorojo (talk) 16:57, 1 May 2014 (UTC)

• Although it is performed in the style of a Chicago blues
  • If instead you wrote, "Although it is performed in the Chicago blues style", would that also be accurate? I realize you are trying to note the Delta blues tradition, but to the reader, is there a significant difference between saying "style of a Chicago blues" and "Chicago blues style"? If you are trying to say that the song is not a true Chicago blues style song, then why not say it was influenced by the Chicago blues style instead of performed in the style of a Chicago blues? I find the current wording confusing. Viriditas (talk) 09:20, 1 May 2014 (UTC)

It is a wordier version of my earlier: "Although it is a Chicago blues, the song is rooted in the Delta blues tradition..." I've re-written it along with other sentences in the first paragraph. —Ojorojo (talk)

• Several earlier songs by blues artists such as Charlie Patton and Memphis Minnie are identified as influencing it.
  • Or try something like: "Musical antecedents to 'Little Red Rooster' appear in earlier songs by blues artists Charlie Patton and Memphis Minnie." Or something like that. Viriditas (talk) 09:20, 1 May 2014 (UTC)

Done. —Ojorojo (talk) 16:57, 1 May 2014 (UTC)

• "Little Red Rooster" has been interpreted and recorded by a variety of musicians.
  • "A variety of musicians have interpreted and recorded 'Little Red Rooster'." Viriditas (talk) 09:26, 1 May 2014 (UTC)

Changed. —Ojorojo (talk) 16:57, 1 May 2014 (UTC)

• What's going on with the hyphenation - Chicago-blues, soul-music, etc.? It looks extremely odd to me. Ghmyrtle (talk) 19:18, 2 May 2014 (UTC)
  • Looks like Ojorojo accidentally added it yesterday.[1] Viriditas (talk) 02:46, 3 May 2014 (UTC)

OK- I've taken them out. Ghmyrtle (talk) 08:50, 3 May 2014 (UTC)

I've seen hyphens often used in genre-related compound modifiers, such as folk-rock harmonies, heavy-metal lyrics, etc. (attributive vs. predicative, see MOS:HYPHEN). Isn't this the same ("Sam Cooke is a soul-music singer" vs. "Sam Cooke is known for singing soul music"? —Ojorojo (talk) 16:21, 3 May 2014 (UTC)

Common usage is the first (but not the last) rule. That's the rule Ghmyrtle used when he decided that the hyphens were "stylistically incorrect". In other words, do the terms "Chicago blues", "Delta blues", and "soul music" commonly use hyphens in that context? The second rule is, does using hyphens follow logically and help the reader? I think the answer is no in both cases. Because the reader is unlikely to become confused, there's no good reason to hyphenate these types of compounds. Finally, in American English, compounds that include proper nouns almost always drop the hyphen. Even if you use it as an adjective, the hyphen is generally not used in common practice. Apparently, prior to 2007, hyphens were more common in these instances, but are now rarely used for this purpose. See Shorter Oxford English Dictionary ("On September 21, 2007, 16,000 words lost their hyphens in a 6th edition of the Shorter Oxford English Dictionary. Angus Stevenson, editor of the Shorter OED, stated the reason: "People are not confident about using hyphens anymore, they're not really sure what they are for." Its researchers reviewed 2 billion words [in newspapers, books, Web sites and blogs from 2000]. Bumble-bee is now bumblebee, ice-cream is ice cream and pot-belly is pot belly, etc.") and Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Music Viriditas (talk) 03:19, 4 May 2014 (UTC)

OK, thanks for the explanation (guess that's why you get the big bucks). —Ojorojo (talk) 15:40, 4 May 2014 (UTC)

• Around the same time, Chicago blues was becoming popular in the UK, due in part to the annual American Folk Blues Festival. While touring there, bluesmen, including Dixon and Howlin' Wolf, introduced local rock musicians to blues songs.
  • This excerpt from the second paragraph is intended as a segue into the third paragraph, describing how the Rolling Stones were exposed to the blues, in particular, this blues song. It would flow more smoothly with greater emphasis on the point of the segue. Something like, for example: "Concurrently, Dixon and Howlin' Wolf toured the UK with the American Folk Blues Festival, popularizing the Chicago blues to local rock musicians overseas." Viriditas (talk) 09:22, 4 May 2014 (UTC)

Changed. —Ojorojo (talk) 15:40, 4 May 2014 (UTC)

• In 1964, they recorded "Little Red Rooster" with original member Brian Jones, who is seen as a key motivator and player in the recording.
  • Is it necessary to say "who is seen" and "motivator" here? Why not just say, "In 1964, they recorded "Little Red Rooster" with original member Brian Jones, a key player in the recording." Viriditas (talk) 09:35, 4 May 2014 (UTC)

Changed. —Ojorojo (talk) 15:40, 4 May 2014 (UTC)

• They frequently performed it on television and in concert and several recordings have been included on live albums by the group.
  • "Live albums by the group" sounds like verbiage. Try, "The Stones frequently performed it on television and in concert and released several live recordings of the song." Viriditas (talk) 09:35, 4 May 2014 (UTC)

Tighter, used yours. —Ojorojo (talk) 15:40, 4 May 2014 (UTC)

Background

Resolved

• Willie Dixon's "The Red Rooster"/"Little Red Rooster" is "to some degree an adaptation and aggregation of motifs from previous records", according to Rolling Stones' biographer Sean Egan.[3] According to Dixon biographer Mitsutoshi Inaba, "The theme, 'There is no peace in the barnyard after the rooster is gone', was prevalent folk wisdom".
  • You don't need to directly quote Egan and Inaba here (but you do need to attribute them, as you did correctly). However, if you wish to keep the quotes (and I assume that you do) instead of paraphrasing, try to alternate the phrasing of "according to X biographer" so that it doesn't follow one after the other. This keeps the reader interested and improves readability. For example, you could try a variation on something like this: "Willie Dixon's 'The Red Rooster'/'Little Red Rooster' is, according to Rolling Stones biographer Sean Egan, 'to some degree an adaptation and aggregation of motifs from previous records'.[3] Dixon biographer Mitsutoshi Inaba notes that the theme, 'There is no peace in the barnyard after the rooster is gone', was prevalent folk wisdom.[4]." Viriditas (talk) 03:52, 5 May 2014 (UTC)

Paraphrased. —Ojorojo (talk) 18:40, 7 May 2014 (UTC)

• The rooster is a theme in several blues songs from the 1920s and 1930s and Willie Dixon biographer Mitsutoshi Inaba has identified two songs in particular as precursors.
  • Make it clear to the reader that you are talking about the male chicken when you begin this sentence. Or just link to rooster. Viriditas (talk) 04:16, 30 April 2014 (UTC)

Linked. —Ojorojo (talk) 15:49, 30 April 2014 (UTC)

I'm still having problems with this sentence. What about something like this: "The image of the rooster appears in several blues songs from the 1920s and 1930s, with two particular songs identified as precursors." Viriditas (talk) 04:14, 5 May 2014 (UTC)

Changed. —Ojorojo (talk) 18:40, 7 May 2014 (UTC)

• Influential Delta blues musician Charlie Patton's 1929 "Banty Rooster Blues" contains the verses "What you want with a rooster, he won't crow 'fore day" and "I know my dog anywhere I hear him bark", which are analogous to Dixon's "I have a little red rooster, too lazy to crow 'fore day" and "Oh the dogs begin to bark ..."[4]
  • In American English style, ellipses are generally not required at the end or at the beginning of a partial quoted phrase, only between phrases. Of course, interpretations may differ, and there may be exceptions for song lyrics, I don't know.Viriditas (talk) 04:49, 5 May 2014 (UTC)

Changed to general practice. —Ojorojo (talk) 18:40, 7 May 2014 (UTC)

• Consider splitting this sentence and lose the "is a" and the "has" and get right down to brass tacks: "The theme of the rooster appears in several blues songs from the 1920s and 1930s. Willie Dixon biographer Mitsutoshi Inaba identified two songs in particular as precursors." Of course, there are other ways to do it that you might prefer. Viriditas (talk) 04:16, 30 April 2014 (UTC)

Done (actually, I had came up with something similar earlier). —Ojorojo (talk) 15:49, 30 April 2014 (UTC)

• Some of the lyrics to Memphis Minnie's 1936 acoustic combo blues "If You See My Rooster (Please Run Him Home)" are also similar: "If you see my rooster, please run 'im on back home", compared to Dixon's "If you see my little red rooster, please drive 'im home".
  • What about this instead? "Some of the lyrics to Memphis Minnie's 1936 acoustic combo blues "If You See My Rooster (Please Run Him Home)" are also similar. For example, Memphis Minnie sings 'If you see my rooster, please run 'im on back home', while Dixon sings, 'If you see my little red rooster, please drive 'im home'." Viriditas (talk) 05:13, 5 May 2014 (UTC)

Changed. —Ojorojo (talk) 18:40, 7 May 2014 (UTC)

• Memphis Minnie's recording also includes a simulated rooster crow, which later became a feature of several recordings of "Little Red Rooster".
  • Source? Viriditas (talk) 09:35, 2 May 2014 (UTC)

Added. —Ojorojo (talk) 18:27, 2 May 2014 (UTC)

I'm not convinced this is entirely clear to the reader. You and I know that Memphis Minnie is "simulating" the sound of a rooster crow with her voice, but I think you need to explain this using the proper terms. Can we refer to it as vocal onomatopoeia here? If not, can you at least specify that the simulated rooster crow is made by her voice? Viriditas (talk) 11:26, 5 May 2014 (UTC)

I found a better source and paraphrased it. —Ojorojo (talk) 18:40, 7 May 2014 (UTC)

• The background section makes extensive use of quotes in places where simple paraphrasing is preferred. Too much direct quoting can also detract from the presentation. For example, take the sentence, "Influential Delta blues musician Charlie Patton's 1929 "Banty Rooster Blues" is seen as 'obviously inspiring' it." Is it necessary to quote "obviously inspiring" here? Unless there is a good reason to quote a simple phrase, rewrite and paraphrase it in your own words. Viriditas (talk) 09:40, 2 May 2014 (UTC)

Changed. —Ojorojo (talk) 18:27, 2 May 2014 (UTC)

• A review in Billboard magazine on December 23, 1950, described her song as "pack[ing] a load of oomph into this tangy up blues, with okay combo boogie in back".
  • Is it necessary to cite the date of publication here? The previous sentence refers to the song in 1950; as the reader we can safely assume that the review was contemporaneous with the song as these are adjoining sentences. A good place to put the date is in the citation at the end of the sentence: "Billboard, December 23, 1950, p. 25." Viriditas (talk) 09:47, 2 May 2014 (UTC)

Changed. —Ojorojo (talk) 18:27, 2 May 2014 (UTC)

• Day's song was a hit, reaching number five in Billboard's Best Selling Retail Rhythm & Blues Records in 1951.
  • I still read it as if it should be on Billboard's chart, not in, but I think you said it can go either way. But, I expect a hit to reach the number five position on a chart, not in a chart. Viriditas (talk) 09:52, 2 May 2014 (UTC)

Changed. —Ojorojo (talk) 18:27, 2 May 2014 (UTC)

Howlin' Wolf song

Resolved

• Delta blues musician Charlie Patton was an early influence on Howlin' Wolf and he recorded adaptations of several Patton songs, including "Spoonful", "Smokestack Lightning", and "Saddle My Pony".
  • Split this up for readability. Here's an example: "Delta blues musician Charlie Patton influenced Howlin' Wolf's early musical development. Wolf recorded several adaptations of Patton's songs, including 'Spoonful', 'Smokestack Lightning', and 'Saddle My Pony'." Viriditas (talk) 09:59, 2 May 2014 (UTC)

Done. —Ojorojo (talk) 18:27, 2 May 2014 (UTC)

• Relatives and early friends remembered Howlin' Wolf playing "something like 'The Red Rooster' in the 1930s. Evelyn Sumlin [wife of guitarist Hubert Sumlin, who played on Wolf's recording] said, 'A bunch of the songs that Willie Dixon did over [arranged], Wolf had already done. But Willie Dixon took the credit for them'".
  • Like the problem in the background section, too much quoting and not enough paraphrasing. You can paraphrase this entire sentence in your own words without needing a quotation. It's also a tortured, confusing quote because you are quoting a quote within a quote (Smith quoted by Segrest). Also quotes like this generally require page numbers, and you're missing it here. Viriditas (talk) 10:10, 2 May 2014 (UTC)

Paraphrased. —Ojorojo (talk) 18:27, 2 May 2014 (UTC)

Do you have any objection to replacing the word "remembered" with "recall" here, as in "Relatives and early friends recall Howlin' Wolf playing"? Viriditas (talk)

Changed. —Ojorojo (talk) 18:40, 7 May 2014 (UTC)

• Lyrically, it follows the classic AAB blues pattern, i.e., two repeated lines followed by a second.
  • Did you mean to say "that is" or "for example" here? Either way, remove the Latin abbreviation and say it in English. I'm sure the MOS discourages it anyway... Viriditas (talk) 10:05, 5 May 2014 (UTC)

Reworded. —Ojorojo (talk) 18:40, 7 May 2014 (UTC)

• Music writer Bill Janovitz describes Howlin' Wolf's vocal as displaying a "master singer's attention to phrasing and note choice, milking out maximum emotion and nuance from the melody".
  • Hands down, the best quote in the article. I'm almost wondering if this shouldn't appear in the lead, with the addition of expanded commentary from Janovitz in the article. Either way, that's above and beyond this review. Maybe something to think about in the future? Viriditas (talk) 10:09, 5 May 2014 (UTC)

I mentioned it in the lead (along with slide guitar). Later I may expand it and add something about the lyrics also. —Ojorojo (talk) 18:40, 7 May 2014 (UTC)

• A key element of the song is the distinctive slide guitar, played by Howlin' Wolf, with backing by long-time accompanist Hubert Sumlin on electric guitar.
  • Shouldn't the slide guitar element also be mentioned in the lead? Viriditas (talk) 10:19, 5 May 2014 (UTC)

Mentioned, as above. —Ojorojo (talk) 18:40, 7 May 2014 (UTC)

• The other musicians include Johnny Jones on piano, Willie Dixon on double bass, and Sam Lay on drums[2] and possibly Jimmy Rogers also on guitar.[18]
  • Remove the "and" and the "also": "The other musicians include Johnny Jones on piano, Willie Dixon on double bass, Sam Lay on drums, and possibly Jimmy Rogers on guitar." Viriditas (talk) 10:44, 5 May 2014 (UTC)

Done. —Ojorojo (talk) 18:40, 7 May 2014 (UTC)

• The Red Rooster" was issued by Chess Records in October 1961,[1] backed with "Shake for Me", which was also recorded during the same session.
  • I had trouble reading this sentence in the current format. Would you object if instead it said something like: "'The Red Rooster', backed with 'Shake for Me', which was also recorded during the same session, was issued by Chess Records in October 1961." Viriditas (talk) 10:48, 5 May 2014 (UTC)

Changed. —Ojorojo (talk) 18:40, 7 May 2014 (UTC)

• Neither song, nor his other songs from the period now considered to be among his best-known, entered the record charts.
  • No hyphen is required when the noun precedes the compound adjective. You only need the hyphen if the reader can get confused when you try to describe the noun. There's no confusion because the noun comes before it, so the hyphen in this instance is superfluous. Viriditas (talk) 11:00, 5 May 2014 (UTC)

Fixed typo. —Ojorojo (talk) 18:40, 7 May 2014 (UTC)

• Both were included on his acclaimed 1962 album Howlin' Wolf, often called the Rockin' Chair album. "The Red Rooster" also appears on many Howlin' Wolf compilations,[14] including Howlin' Wolf: The Chess Box and Howlin' Wolf: His Best — The Chess 50th Anniversary Collection.
  • How do you feel about moving citation 14 to the end of the sentence so that it supports it in its entirety (as intended)? Viriditas (talk) 09:20, 28 April 2014 (UTC)

Moved. —Ojorojo (talk) 15:46, 28 April 2014 (UTC)

• Later, Chess arranged for Howlin' Wolf to record "The Red Rooster" and some other songs with several rock figures (Eric Clapton, Steve Winwood, Bill Wyman, and Charlie Watts) for the 1971 album The London Howlin' Wolf Sessions.
  • Eliminate "some", "several rock figures", and the parenthetical. Then, try: "Chess arranged for Howlin' Wolf to record "The Red Rooster" and other songs with Eric Clapton, Steve Winwood, Bill Wyman, and Charlie Watts on the 1971 album The London Howlin' Wolf Sessions." Viriditas (talk) 11:20, 5 May 2014 (UTC)

Changed. —Ojorojo (talk) 18:40, 7 May 2014 (UTC)

• At the beginning of recording, Howlin' Wolf can be heard attempting to explain the timing of the song..
  • You're missing an article: "At the beginning of the recording..." Viriditas (talk) 09:24, 28 April 2014 (UTC)

Added. —Ojorojo (talk) 15:46, 28 April 2014 (UTC)

• Dixon's and Lay's parts are suitably understated, with Dixon mostly only playing the root or V notes on the first and third beats and Lay staying in the background.
  • Source? Viriditas (talk) 07:31, 29 April 2014 (UTC)

Removed. —Ojorojo (talk) 16:52, 29 April 2014 (UTC)

Sam Cooke rendition

Resolved

• However, L.C. felt the song was not suitable for him, "I said, 'I'm not a blues singer.' So Sam said, 'Well, I'm gonna do it then.'"
  • The comma introducing the quote here doesn't work. Try something like: However, L.C. felt the song was not suitable for him. "I said, 'I'm not a blues singer.' So Sam said, 'Well, I'm gonna do it then,'" L.C. recalled.
  • Or you could switch it around like this: However, L.C. felt the song was not suitable for him. L.C. recalled, "I said, 'I'm not a blues singer.' So Sam said, 'Well, I'm gonna do it then.'" Viriditas (talk) 07:27, 29 April 2014 (UTC)

Used your first example. —Ojorojo (talk) 16:52, 29 April 2014 (UTC)

• Dixon's lyrics are delivered in Cooke's articulate vocal style, but with an additional verse:
  • Whichever source you use here isn't all that important, just as long as you use one. You could even link to the original recording if necessary. Viriditas (talk) 07:32, 29 April 2014 (UTC)

Added source (MetroLyrics has the wrong lyrics & writer for Cooke's song). —Ojorojo (talk) 16:52, 29 April 2014 (UTC)

• A young Billy Preston uses "playful organ vocalizing", i.e., organ lines that imitate the sounds of a rooster crowing and, following the lyrics, dogs barking and hounds howling.
  • Remove the Latin abbreviation and replace it with the English words you intend it to represent. Viriditas (talk) 11:29, 5 May 2014 (UTC)

Done. —Ojorojo (talk) 18:40, 7 May 2014 (UTC)

Rolling Stones version

Resolved

• The Rolling Stones began their career by playing blues songs and were particularly influenced by Chess Records Chicago artists, including Howlin' Wolf and Muddy Waters (they took their name from a song by the latter).
  • For readability, try something like this (or change it around to something you prefer): "Chess Records Chicago artists, including Howlin' Wolf and Muddy Waters, influenced the Rolling Stones, with the band taking their name from a Muddy Waters tune and playing from a repertoire of blues songs at the beginning of their career." Viriditas (talk) 11:46, 5 May 2014 (UTC)

Used yours. —Ojorojo (talk) 18:40, 7 May 2014 (UTC)

• Early Stones manager Giorgio Gomelsky described a such a meeting
  • I think this needs a colon. Viriditas (talk) 11:52, 5 May 2014 (UTC)

Yes, fixed. —Ojorojo (talk) 18:40, 7 May 2014 (UTC)

• Janovitz has described the Rolling Stones' "Little Red Rooster" as "a fairly faithful version [of the original]
  • Remove "has". Viriditas (talk) 11:56, 5 May 2014 (UTC)

Done and added Wyman note. He doesn't elaborate, but there was a lot of "pop group rips off blues legend with anemic cover" going around at the time. I don't know if it's worth expanding. —Ojorojo (talk) 18:40, 7 May 2014 (UTC)

• . Jagger uses the lyrics from the original (omitting Cooke's extra verse), but makes one important change — instead of "I got a little red rooster"
  • In English, an em dash is usually unspaced. Viriditas (talk) 12:05, 5 May 2014 (UTC)

OK. —Ojorojo (talk) 18:40, 7 May 2014 (UTC)

• Instrumentally, Bill Wyman generally follows Dixon's bass lines[18] and Charlie Watts later admitted that his drum part was inspired by Sam Cooke's version,[43] which was played by Hal Blaine.
  • Split this up: "Instrumentally, Bill Wyman generally follows Dixon's bass lines. Charlie Watts later admitted that his drum part was inspired by Sam Cooke's version, which was played by Hal Blaine." Viriditas (talk) 12:00, 5 May 2014 (UTC)

Done. —Ojorojo (talk) 18:40, 7 May 2014 (UTC)

• Two different dates and recording locations have been given
  • Try: "Two different recording dates and locations are known." Lose the "have been". Viriditas (talk) 12:08, 5 May 2014 (UTC)

Done. —Ojorojo (talk) 18:40, 7 May 2014 (UTC)

• According to AllMusic writer Matthew Greenwald, "Little Red Rooster" was Brian Jones' favorite Stones single[41] and Wyman noted "It realized a cherished ambition [of Jones] to put blues music at the top of the charts, and meant his guilt of having 'sold out' completely to pop fame was diminished".
  • Split this up: "According to AllMusic writer Matthew Greenwald, "Little Red Rooster" was Brian Jones' favorite Stones single. Wyman noted that it "realized a cherished ambition [of Jones] to put blues music at the top of the charts, and meant his guilt of having 'sold out' completely to pop fame was diminished'." Viriditas (talk)

Done. —Ojorojo (talk) 18:40, 7 May 2014 (UTC)

• It was the band's last cover song to be released as a single during the 1960s; subsequent efforts were Jagger/Richards compositions.
  • Source for this? Viriditas (talk) 07:29, 29 April 2014 (UTC)

Added and clarified. —Ojorojo (talk) 16:52, 29 April 2014 (UTC)

• The Rolling Stones performed "Little Red Rooster" on several television programs in 1964 and 1965, including Ready Steady Go! (UK), Big Beat '65 (Australia), and The Ed Sullivan Show (U.S.), Shindig! (U.S.), Shivaree (U.S.) (at their insistence, Howlin' Wolf also performed on Shindig!, where he was introduced by Brian Jones).
  • Surely, there are sources for this, particularly the last sentence? The dates and programs should be listed somewhere, such as a source about the Rolling Stones? Viriditas (talk) 08:31, 2 May 2014 (UTC)

Added dates & refs (the Australian video used to be on YouTube, but I can't find a ref). —Ojorojo (talk) 18:27, 2 May 2014 (UTC)

• As a condition for their performance on Shindig!, Howlin' Wolf also sang a song ("How Many More Years"), which was his only appearance on prime-time American network television.
  • There is no hyphen in "prime-time". It can be written "prime time" or "primetime". Viriditas (talk) 12:16, 5 May 2014 (UTC)

Changed. —Ojorojo (talk) 18:40, 7 May 2014 (UTC)

• The song is included on their third American album, The Rolling Stones, Now!, released in February 1965. "Little Red Rooster" appears on several Rolling Stones compilation albums, including the UK version of Big Hits (High Tide and Green Grass), Singles Collection: The London Years, Rolled Gold: The Very Best of the Rolling Stones, and GRRR!. Live versions appear on Love You Live and Flashpoint (with Eric Clapton, who contributed to Howlin' Wolf's 1971 remake, on slide guitar).
  • Can you cite to a comprehensive discography source on the Stones, or failing that, cite the recordings? Viriditas (talk) 08:31, 2 May 2014 (UTC)

Added. —Ojorojo (talk) 18:27, 2 May 2014 (UTC)

Recognition and influence

Resolved

• As well as being a blues standard, [5]
  • You've got an extra space in front of the citation. Please remove it. Viriditas (talk) 01:42, 28 April 2014 (UTC)

I've done it. Minor copyediting anyone can do - and GA reviewers are encouraged to do such things themselves. It's quicker and easier than asking someone else to do it - and less potentially offensive. SilkTork ^{✔Tea time} 08:16, 28 April 2014 (UTC)

Thanks for your feedback. This review is not yet finished, and I can't imagine how it could be offensive to note an issue. Every reviewer has a personal style, but I've all but stopped attempting to fix most GA articles during the review process because a few past nominators took offense at my changes. My more recent approach is to finish the review first, and then at the end of the process, make minor copyedits if needed, and I've done just that during the last two reviews. I'm sure your approach will be quite different from my own based on your own experience. Thanks. Viriditas (talk) 09:04, 28 April 2014 (UTC)

• To illustrate their variety, some of these include:
  • That's bordering on a self-reference. You could just say, "Some of these cover versions include" and leave it at that. I would prefer the citations at the end of the paragraph, but that's my own stylistic choice. I find refs in the middle tend to impact readability and leave other editors wondering if this list is fully sourced. YMMV. Viriditas (talk) 09:45, 28 April 2014 (UTC)

This wording was an attempt to address other editors' objections that these lists were arbitrary, random, incomplete, not notable, etc. You are the second (third?) reviewer not to object to a sampling and that the simpler language is sufficient to convey the idea, so I've changed it. Also moved ref. —Ojorojo (talk) 15:46, 28 April 2014 (UTC)

My only question about the list concerns the format and presentation. The list is alpha sorted, but looks random. I've often found that editors can increase the readers understanding of the topic by augmenting a list with additional information and presenting it in a corresponding format. Could it be presented in a way that increases comprehension? There's no answer required. Just something to think about. Viriditas (talk) 19:33, 28 April 2014 (UTC)

Music lists are like magnets for fans and trivia buffs, who want to add info regardless of suitability or importance. Many of these edits are made improperly and the sections require constant maintenance. Also, they can get too large and come to dominate shorter articles. I've tried several approaches, but each has problems. Personally, I prefer a few examples of artists with verifiable specifics, such as date, peak chart position if a single, album name, etc. However, whenever there are attempts to narrow the field, some will always argue "if X is there, why not Y?" And regardless of stated list requirements, drive-by editors will usually add the barest of unverified info and leave it for someone else to fix. So, I've begun using this bare list format, because it's easy for the casual editor to edit correctly. Also, it doesn't take up too much space and when it does, it may be trimmed for a fresh start. For now, it seems to be a practical solution. —Ojorojo (talk) 16:52, 29 April 2014 (UTC)

References

Resolved

• Last four sources listed appear to have been added on after the list was already alpha sorted. Please sort them. Viriditas (talk) 03:36, 5 May 2014 (UTC)

Done. —Ojorojo (talk) 18:40, 7 May 2014 (UTC)

Criteria

GA review – see WP:WIAGA for criteria

1. Is it reasonably well written?

   A. Prose is "clear and concise", without copyvios, or spelling and grammar errors:

   B. MoS compliance for lead, layout, words to watch, fiction, and lists:

2. Is it factually accurate and verifiable?

   A. Has an appropriate reference section:

   B. Citation to reliable sources where necessary:

   C. No original research:

3. Is it broad in its coverage?

   A. Major aspects:

   B. Focused:

4. Is it neutral?

   Fair representation without bias:

5. Is it stable?

   No edit wars, etc:

6. Does it contain images to illustrate the topic?

   A. Images are tagged with their copyright status, and valid fair use rationales are provided for non-free content:

   Per WP:NFCCP, article contains multiple items of non-free content because one item cannot convey equivalent significant information. In this case, the image of the original single by Howlin' Wolf and the later single by the Rolling Stones.

Is the reflection in the Wolf single very noticeable? Two alternatives have false color and more wear. —Ojorojo (talk) 15:46, 28 April 2014 (UTC)

I didn't notice it until you pointed it out. Now, I can't stop seeing it! Viriditas (talk) 23:44, 29 April 2014 (UTC)

It bugs me, so I'll change it. —Ojorojo (talk) 18:40, 7 May 2014 (UTC)

1. B. Images are provided if possible and are relevant to the topic, and have suitable captions:

2. Overall:

   Pass or Fail:

   Passed. Meets and exceeds the GA criteria. Nice job, Ojorojo. The prose made the hairs stand up on the back of my neck in several places. You've got the start of something special here. Keep at it. Viriditas (talk) 01:57, 8 May 2014 (UTC)

Thanks again for your invaluable contributions, Viriditas. Your patience and encouragement are also appreciated. —Ojorojo (talk) 13:44, 8 May 2014 (UTC)