Talk:Lockheed C-141 Starlifter

Number of Passengers

The article currently has "154 troops or 42,869 kg (94,508 lb) of cargo" other sources like Rene Francillion has "138 troops in aft-facing seats. 124 paratroopers on side-facing buckets seats" is also mentions 62,717 ib of cargo. The source used for the 154 troops is not the best (although used a lot in the article) has anybody else got a reliable source for the original seat plan and cargo capacity, thanks. MilborneOne (talk) 08:58, 12 April 2020 (UTC)

Good catch, I don't like inconsistent sources. Kyteto (talk) 10:08, 16 April 2020 (UTC)

GOA or GAO?

In 2 places under the Operating History subheading, the article refers to a GOA report. Should these have GAO (for Government Accounting Office) instead? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Kramneg2 (talk • contribs) 20:57, 25 November 2020 (UTC)

Article should include 1994 Green Ramp disaster - see cross referenced Wikipedia link

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_Ramp_disaster

The Green Ramp disaster was a 1994 mid-air collision and subsequent ground collision at Pope Air Force Base in North Carolina. It killed twenty-four members of the U.S. Army's 82nd Airborne Division preparing for an airborne operation.It was the worst peacetime loss of life suffered by the division since the end of World War II.

An F-16 hit the ground, its momentum carried the wreckage westward through the right wing of a C-141B Starlifter (AF Ser. No. 66-0173 of the 438th Airlift Wing, McGuire Air Force Base, New Jersey) parked on the ramp. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 130.44.57.114 (talk) 15:21, 22 January 2021 (UTC)

SOLL II

The text states: "In 1994, a total of 13 C-141Bs were given SOLL II (Special Operations Low-Level II) modifications, which gave the aircraft a low-level night flying capability, enhanced navigation equipment, and improved defensive countermeasures." I was at Charleston AFB from the end of 1988 to the end of 1992 and, although I was not involved in SOLL II operations, I was aware that each of the four airlift squadrons had two SOLL II sections, and that the 437 MAW was the only C-141 wing with the SOLL II mission. In 1992, as the wing prepared to eventually transition to the C-17, the SOLL II mission was transferred, temporarily at least, to the wing at McGuire AFB, NJ.

At that time the USAF was going into its post-Cold War drawdown in the beginning of 1992, and officers who were not pilots, Air Force Academy graduates, or possessing a Regular commission were targeted for separation. The USAF said it needed 95% or more (in reality "95% or more" meant 100%) of those in this group commissioned between 1981 and 1985 to choose to separate under "early out" programs being offered (either a lump sum or an annuity based upon the years one had served) to meet its goal. A friend was a SOLL II navigator and, when the early-out programs were offered, I asked him if he was going to get out. He said no, that he was transferring to McGuire AFB with the transfer of the SOLL II mission. This was curious, as I had not heard there was an exception for SOLL II navigators. His squadron commander had told all of the SOLL II navigators that they had nothing to worry about, that the USAF valued their skills and would hold onto them. My friend believed him and transferred to McGuire AFB. The USAF said it didn't meet it goal of voluntary separations (even if it had, there was still going to be forced separations - a story for another day) and my friend was involuntarily separated with a far smaller severance than if he had volunteered for one of the early-out options. Had he fully understood the big picture, he would have understood that being part of the SOLL II mission did not protect him from involuntary separation.

This is part of how I know Charleston AFB had SOLL II well before 1994. I knew people in it and what become of them.

Additionally, SOLL II sections within the airlift squadrons wore unofficial patches on their flight suits that identified them as SOLL II crewmembers, so it was clear that the capability existed within the 437 MAW at the time.VilePig (talk)

First Official Act?

Paragraph 4 in the “Origins” section states that “President John F. Kennedy's first official act after his inauguration was to order the development of the Lockheed 300 on 13 March 1961, placing an initial contract for five aircraft for test and evaluation, to be designated the C-141.”

This Wikipedia article incorrectly states that Kennedy's "first official act" as President was not taken until March 13, 1961, that is, not until 52 days after his inauguration. But the notion that JFK didn’t take any official actions until March 13 1961 is inaccurate.

1. Hundreds of President Kennedy’s official actions, decisions, meetings, communications and announcements that were made before his announced decision on the L-300 on March 13, 1961 are documented in the papers of Evelyn Lincoln, Personal secretary to John F. Kennedy. President Kennedy’s daily White House appointment calendars are available online at https://www.jfklibrary.org/Asset-Viewer/Archives/ELPP.aspx?f=1 and also at https://jfklibrary.libguides.com/ld.php?content_id=26048621

2. According to the Executive Orders Disposition Tables published by the Federal Register, available at https://www.archives.gov/federal-register/executive-orders/1961-kennedy.html, President Kennedy signed Executive Order 10914 on January 21, 1961, one day after his inauguration on January 20. As shown in the following list, he continued signing other executive orders, until he’d already signed a total of 12 such orders by March 13, 1961, when he finally took action on the Lockheed L-300.

John F. Kennedy's Executive Order numbers and Date Signed were as follows: 10914, January 21, 1961; 10915, January 24, 1961; 10916, January 24, 1961; 10917, February 10, 1961; 10918, February 16, 1961; 10919, February 17, 1961; 10920, February 18, 1961; 10921, February 21, 1961; 10922, February 23, 1961; 10923, February 24, 1961; 10924, March 1, 1961; and 10925, March 6, 1961

These executive actions before March 13, 1961 dealt with national priorities such as global hunger, government ethics, collective bargaining, equal employment opportunity and the Peace Corps. Such executive actions clearly rose to the level of “official acts.”

3. The White House photographers took pictures documenting many of President Kennedy’s high-level strategy meetings with national leaders before the L-300 announcement. Many of these photos are available online from the JFK Presidential Library at https://www.jfklibrary.org/asset-viewer/archives/jfkwhp . For example, these photos show that on January 23, 1961, President Kennedy discussed the deteriorating situation in Southeast Asia with Secretary of State Dean Rusk and Secretary of Defense Robert S. McNamara. Another meeting is shown with the Joint Chiefs of Staff on January 25, 1961. A third meeting on February 2, 1961 is shown with NATO Supreme Commander Gen. Lauris Norstad and Gen. Lyman L. Lemnitzer.

Before announcing his decision on the L-300 on March 13, 1961, JFK had already held hundreds of critical meetings with national and international leaders that were documented by the White House photographers. It is inaccurate to assert that President Kennedy's first official act after his inauguration was to order the development of the Lockheed 300 on 13 March 1961.

Recommended Change in Wikipedia article on Lockheed C-141 Starlifter:

1. Change the culprit sentence to read as follows: “President John F. Kennedy ordered the development of the Lockheed 300 on 13 March 1961, placing an initial contract for five aircraft for test and evaluation, to be designated the C-141.”

Thank you for considering this recommendation.

Geoff 2601:8C:4B82:2890:81A4:C344:3BBD:9DF (talk) 21:49, 20 January 2024 (UTC)