Talk:Lockheed Model 10 Electra

US Navy

Article makes no mention of the R2O and R3O versions of the US Navy. Drutt (talk) 15:54, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

Ok, they were erroneously given as R20 and R30. This has been corrected. Drutt (talk) 16:04, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

Ansett Airways Civil Operations. South Eastern Australia.

Ansett Airways bought new L10 Electras for their mainly South Australia & Victorian operations in South Eastern Australia in the mid to late 1930's. Based at Hamilton in Victoria, their main large city headquarters was in Melbourne utilising Essendon Aerodrome. Additionally, interstate routes were served eg. Melbourne - Adelaide (South Australia) & Melbourne - Launceston (Tasmania), & Melbourne - Sydney (New South Wales). Ansett's Hamilton origins came about when Reginald Miles Ansett, a Hamilton man, attempted to run large stretched limousines to Melbourne but the Victorian Government refused permission as such a service would compete with the rail service run by the Victorian Government. Ansett decided to sell a piece of fruit for ten pounds & throw in the coach ride free. Next he continued the same ruse with a Fokker Universal, & ultimately, Lockheed Tens. Ansett Airlines continued until after the new Millennium operating all over continental Australia, the South Pacific, & beyond with a very large fleet ranging from B747 to BA146, B737, B767 etc.. The only accident with an Electra 10 (Electra 188s were later used) was on descent into Adelaide in poor visibility when the aircraft, with gear up, landed in a paddock whilst on descent. No-one was hurt, & the aircraft soon resumed duties. Alan Pace, Melbourne. 59.101.205.25 (talk) 12:05, 26 January 2009 (UTC)

Velocities?

Hello everyone, could someone please give me the stall speed and Vmc (minimum control speed) for an Electra 10-E with 6,600 lbs of fuel on board? I need these numbers for a song I've written about Amelia Earhart, called "The Plane that Never Returned". There's a line I've put in there that says she was "flying just fast enough to steer" (i.e. flying just above Vmc) after she leveled the plane out just above the water, and I want to double-check if that would be realistic or not. If not, then I guess I'll have to find some other rhyme for "the crowd all gasped in fear". Thanks!

76.21.37.87 (talk) 06:37, 10 June 2009 (UTC)

Sorry but this is really a talk page for discussing improvements or problems with the article. For general question you might want to try Wikipedia:Reference desk/Science. MilborneOne (talk) 11:35, 10 June 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for the suggestion, I'll try that link.

76.21.37.87 (talk) 01:03, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

Designer

A posting at Wikipedia:Help desk#Lockheed Model 10 Electra, apparently by a son of Lloyd C. Stearman, raised a question regarding who was primarily responsible for the design of the Electra. In brief, the claim is that Stearman was primarily responsible, and that he "began designing in [his] living room", before the involvement of Hall Hibbard and Clarence "Kelly" Johnson. As to whether this can be verified in WP:RS, I'm not sure, but Stearman Aircraft a Detailed Study (Edward H. Phillips 2006) suggests that Stearman was "deeply involved" in the Electra design (I'm relying however on what Google books will show - the source needs proper review). I also note that the National Aviation Hall of Fame also credits Stearman as having "designed the famous Electra airplane" [1], and think on this basis that the article needs to at minimum indicate Stearman's heavy involvement in the design process, and will amend it accordingly. As for any further amendments, I'd appreciate help from anyone with accesss to the source cited, as well as any other relevant material. AndyTheGrump (talk) 23:24, 22 May 2013 (UTC)

Stearman designed a single-engined ten-seat transport for Lockheed but they decided not to proceed and built a twin-engined design by Hall Hibberd assisted by Richard Van Hake (Francillion's Lockheed Aircraft since 1913), Stearman had a minor role or as the source says "assisted by Richard Van Kahe and to a lessor extent by Stearman". Even Kelly Johnson got into the act later in the design cycle but we dont normally credit design teams just the sole or principal designer which in this case was Hibberd. MilborneOne (talk) 21:08, 29 May 2013 (UTC)

Hibbard was the primary and chief designer. The infobox should name Hibbard. The article text should also describe what role Stearman had, and what corrective measures were taken by Johnson.

• "Head Skunk ". Hibbard is chief engineer. Johnson says the design is unstable and is sent to test a model in a wind tunnel. Stearman not discussed."]
• "Model 10 Electra". Hibbard is primary designer. Johnson's role is described but not Stearman's.
• Wayne Baron's Barons of the Sky, page 256. Hibbard is the Electra's chief designer.
• Bill Yenne's Aces High, page 63. Hibbard is chief engineer, Johnson working under him.
• Gil Ceferrat's Lockheed, page 4. Hibbard "conceived" the Electra.
• American Military Transport Aircraft Since 1925, page 66. Hibbard is designer. No others mentioned.
• James R. Stevens's Searching for the Hudson Bombers, page 51. Hibbard and Stearman worked together to design the Electra. No Johnson.
• Daniel Alef's Clarence L. Kelly Johnson, page 6. Hibbard designed the Electra, then Johnson redesigned it after wind tunnel tests. No Stearman.
• Dennis R. Jenkins's Lockheed Secret Projects, page 10. Stearman is general manager "who, along with chief engineer Robert von Hake and assistant chief engineer Hall Hibbard, set about designing" the Electra. No Johnson.
• Philip Taubman's Secret Empire, page 75. Hibbard designed the Electra, then Johnson tested it in a wind tunnel and redesigned it for better stability. No Stearman.

The thread running through these various versions is Hibbard who was the new chief engineer to replace von Hake. Hibbard deserves main credit for the aircraft. Binksternet (talk) 22:43, 29 May 2013 (UTC)

Greater Romania Campaign over Stalingrad 1941-1943 Lockheed 14 and 10

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Greater Romania Campaign over Stalingrad 1941-1943 ....................... Preparations Source, Ministerul Fortelor Aerului R56 02478 BIBLOTECA 11.834/4, hence ,public domain,Library of Air Ministry of Romania, books?Aristiderazu (talk) 10:52, 9 February 2018 (UTC)Aristiderazu Romanian Aeronautic in 1935-1941 Chief of Romanian Air Ministry of Air Secretaey was named Engineer Nicolae Caranfil.These proposes a daring program of reorganising of the Aeronautics which would suite the needs and real financial possibilities of Greater Romania.Before him Radu Irimescu .The new plan was to have a total of 83 Squadrons,aviation and 41 companies of aero-stations letter of Engineer Caranfil to the Prime Minister at the time .. MR.Prime Minister Following the discussions we had with Mr.General Paul Angelescu , Minister of National Defence , at yor Mr.home , in the day of 24th of December 1936, seeing once more that the connectionwhich must therefore exist between leaders of departments of National Defence and of Air thus, and Navy cannot take place , due to the permanent animozity which Gral Paul Angelescu had always towards me , and of which cause I have never seen and do not see a way of acomplishing my urgent program of organising the Aeronautics and Navy,our underlyning , I have the honor to present to zou Sir my resignation from Government . With this occassion I thank you ,Mr.Prime Minister , for the conqur which zou Sir have always given to me , in all circumstances and please have my deepest gratitude..signed .Eng.N.Caramfil ............... 40 Bristol Blenheim and 12 Hawker Hurricanes(for dog fighting role), have been aquired by Romanian Air Ministry from Great Brittain , of which 37 have landed safely in Bucharest .In 1941 in Romania Campaign to Stalingrad ,these were used for long ricconaisance purpose ,equiped with two Bristol Mercury engine, each, of 825 Hp, speed 418Km/h, ceilling 8130mAristiderazu (talk) 16:20, 8 February 2018 (UTC)Aristiderazu .The Huricannes have all landed safely in Bucharest. In those political circumstances ,initially , the British have refused to aacept the order by Romanian State , oficially .Has though interveened unoficially ,Commandor.Av.Nicolau Constantin , Aero -attache to London then,1939, .Through connections with certain pollitical factours , he succeeds tochange the decission of the British Government.The matter have been discussed in the Room of Communes , too.Finally has been approved the delivery towards Romania of a number of 40 Bristol Blenheim which have arrived in the country in three batches .The romanian pilots have left for England in two groups .,the first group at 17th of August 1939, made up of ten flying pilots crews under the command of Cpt.Cdor.av.Georgescu Laurentiu .The second group under the command of Cpt.Cdor.av.Alecu Demetrescu leaves at 6th of September 1939. At 14th of September 1939 , a formation of fourteen planes , having as head of formation Lt.Cdor.av.Cristescu P.Ioan have left towards the country on the intinerary ..Oxford -Bristol-Caen-Nantes Bordeaux.At 15th of September they have flown from Bordeaux to Marseille ,and at 16th of September they have arrived at Milano.At 17th of September with an escale at Belgrad, have arrived at Bukarest only 13 planes .Number 4.plane with the crew made out of Lt.av.Nicolae Mirescu and maister/master Petre Todica , due to a torrential rain and to a visibility almost nulle , enter in lossing of speed when landing .They crush to the edge of Bordeaux Aerodrome.The plane goes on fire , and the crew sadly perish in flames. The other formation ,led by Cpt.Cdor .av.Alecu Demetrescu , have left England at 27th of September with direction Bordeaux , from where on the same intinerary , on which have flown the precedent batch , have arrived in Bucharest/Bukarest/Bucuresti at 10th of October 1939, with an escale at Milano of nine days. The last formations of planes leaves England at 15th of October 1939, under the command of Capt .Cdor.avLaurentiu Georgescu and arrives into the country at 18th of November 1939, in extremly difficult atmospheric conditions . At take off on Bordeaux erodrome , the plane piloted by Cpt.av.Dumitru Popescu -Pufi is accidented .Luckily the pilot escapes unharmed. In the last stage of flight of the said formation , the number 14 plane , piloted bz Adj.Chief av.Vasile Mezin , having colleague of flight Maestru/Master Enache, due to the very dense fogg, engages and crushes at Orsova .The crew perish in Danube River waters. Have arrived in the country 37 Bristol-Blenheim , instead of 40. At take off on Bordeaux erodrome , the plane piloted by Cpt.av.Dumitru Popescu -Pufi is accidented .Luckily the pilot escapes unharmed. In the last stage of flight of the said formation , the number 14 plane , piloted bz Adj.Chief av.Vasile Mezin , having colleague of flight Maestru/Master Enache, due to the very dense fogg, engages and crushes at Orsova .The crew perish in Danube River waters. Have arrived in the country 37 Bristol-Blenheim , instead of 40. From Germany have beenaquired *Romanian petrol being the exchange coin* starting with 1940 , 30 Heinkel 112*dog-fighting* planes , 32 twin engined Heinkel 111 planes *bombers* , 20 planes Ju 87 ,,Stukas,, *dive bombing role* , 50 Messerschmitt 109 E3 and E7*dog-fighting role* As to the plan, from France have been aquired , special autovehicles for airfields and equipment, from Germany heavy tonaje transport trucks Henschel , from Switzerland 20mm Oerrlikon cannons,the necessary of ammunition for airplanes and wirst watches ,necessary for the navigant personel .From United States autotrucks Ford Marmon with double tracktion , destined to the units of anty air defence .From Italy ,silk for parashutes , Beretta hand pistols for the navigant personell , tractors and buldozers for the Aero Pioneers Regiment and shit /foil for the campaign tents. Obtaining of these materials was beginning to come more and more difficult after 1st of September 1939 ,once the second part of the Mondial War started, the situation became critical. England,Belgium,Holland ,France have definitivelly stoped the shipments towards the Greater Romania,Germany and Italy have drastically reduced them.The Romanian Aeronautical Industry was in great difficulty of primery matters and semifabricated ones, hence raw materials .The situation had become thus critical. With the order nr.11349 from23rd of March 1940, the General Staff of Romanian Army ,asks to the Romanian Ministry of Air and Navy to pass at the latest 1st of April 1941 , to the integral execution of hzpotesis 32.Thus 84 different Squadrons with a total of 834 planes mono and twin engined within the operative units , to which were added 338 reserve airplanes and 350 airplanes for interior for school and training of the navigant personell.Thus , a total of 1517 aiplanes. The value of 32nd Hzpotesis rose up to 32 milliards Lei , at 1938 value,. Material Staff 1941 For long range reconaisance and light bombardment,,Bristol Blenheim,Bristol-Mercury twin engined ,825Hp,418km/h,ceilling 8310m, Potez 63, equiped with Gnome-Rhone 14M of 670Hp,425km/h,ceilling 8500m. For observation , IAR 38 , BMW,132-700Hp,220Km/h and IAR 39, equiped with IAR K/14 engine of 870Hp,280km/h,ceilling 7000m.Also in this category were included SET 7K ,with an IAR K7-120 of 420Hp,250km/h. , For bombing role Savoia Marchetti S79b.which were aso produced under license in Romaniawhich (),twin engined Gnome Rhone K14 and 1000 A and starting with July 1941 also Savoia Marchetti 79 B manufactured at IAR Brasov after the Italian license ,modified at IAR Power Plant , equiped with 2 Junkers 211 E and 211F of 1200Hp engine each and 1350 Hp , 3350Km/h,ceilling 8000m,PZL planes P-37B Los,manufactured in Poland , equiped with two engines Bristol Pegasus XII and Bristol Pegasus XX of 918Hp,440km/h,ceilling 6000m. The planes IAR 81 ,equiped with IAR K 14-1000A , of 1000Hp,500km/h,used for divebombing role ,, Junkers Ju 87 Stukas ,Junkers Jumo 211 D.a. of 1200Hp for dive bombing role ,385Km/h,ceilling 8000m,,planes Heinkel He 111 ,Karas and Bloch. For dog-fight IAR 80 ,IAR K 14 engine ,510km/h,,Messerschmitt Bf 109E,Daimler-Benz,1250Hp,520Km/h,ceilling 10500m,, planes PZL P 11 ,engine IAR K 9,600Hp,380Km/h,9000m,,PZL P24 planes ,engine IAR K 14 ,870Hp,430km/h,9500m,,planes Hawker Hurricane , Rolls -Royce ,1200Hp,500Km/h,11900m,planes Heinkel 112 ,400Km/h,10500m. For Hydroaviation Savoia Marchetti S 62 bis, with one engine I.F.Asso 800Hp,225Km/h and Kant Z 501 , engine Asso I.F.833 Hp,265Km/h planes. For transport planes Junkers 34, the three engined Junkers 52 ,Potez 56, Lockheed 14 and Lockheed 10. For connection and school planes Fleet F-10G.ICAR,Nardi-PWS,ST,Klemm K1 35D and Me 108 Taifun. Hence in 1941 ,there were 50 squadrons/Escadrile to 80 ...The 32 Plan

..................for missing textAristiderazu (talk) 17:33, 11 February 2018 (UTC)Aristiderazu

Still not sure why you are dumping this text on different talk pages. MilborneOne (talk) 18:26, 11 February 2018 (UTC)

Horsepower to kilowatt conversions

As it stands, the article states that between the Electra 10-A and Electra 10-B the horsepower decreased (450 to 440) but the kilowatts increased (336 to 340). Surely this can't be correct? Also, when I manually convert either "imperial" or "metric" horsepower to kW, I get 450 hp as 331 kW, not 336 kW. My conversion of the lower 440 hp engine produces even greater deviation from the existing text, so I suspect the conversion from 440 hp to kilowatts may be the main error in the section. Does anybody have confirmed values for the power of these engines? "Pij" (talk) 04:39, 12 February 2024 (UTC)

I have applied Template:cvt to all the power values in that section, hopefully that has solved the problems. The template resolves 450 hp to 336 kW (450 hp (336 kW)) with a significant figure modifier, its default rounding is 340kW (done for encyclopedic reasons), Convert.exe conversion programme produces 335.5649 kW. Editors doing conversions manually will sometimes round up or down. Nimbus (Cumulus nimbus floats by) 10:23, 12 February 2024 (UTC)