Talk:Lombard RAC Rally (video game)

"Speed Run" section becomes "Legacy"... why?

I reverted some changes, primarily those by Dgpop (talk · contribs), mainly due to

"Other game should be Legacy, not it's own section"

Why? It's not a "legacy" game, it's a variant that came out around the same time (and was actually advertised under that name *before* the ST version became Lombard RAC Rally).

I don't disagree that the ST version is the main one of interest, but I don't see any reason why the Atari 8-bit "Speed Run" should be inappropriately shoehorned into a "legacy" section, as that's not what "legacy" means(!)

We could make "Speed Run" a second-level subsection under an "Other versions" or "Variants" section or similar, but since there's only one, that'd be kind of pointless (IMHO!)

Ubcule (talk) 17:47, 3 September 2021 (UTC)

Hi! This is a weird case, because the article says the game is "superficially similar," yet there's a whole section and an infobox implying that it is either the same game or a direct part of the series. Re-reading it, especially without a year in the text, it's hard to tell exactly what the connection is:

Lombard RAC Rally's developers (Red Rat Software) also released a superficially similar game called Speed Run for the Atari 8-bit family which featured the same animated driver, but far more simplistic through-the-window graphics and gameplay. (Early adverts for Speed Run also mentioned an Atari ST version, but do not make clear whether that proposed version later evolved into Lombard RAC Rally instead.)

My initial interpretation was that this game came later (hence, Legacy). How do you feel about adding the release date to the text and dropping the infobox? Dgpop (talk) 18:28, 3 September 2021 (UTC)

@Dgpop: Regarding the "connection", I think it's pretty obvious that the 8-bit Speed Run and ST/Amiga Lombard are "connected" since they were made by the same developer, feature the same driver graphics and "Speed Run" *was* clearly advertised for the ST (though never released under that name on that format).

At the same time, it's quite clear that Speed Run on the 8-bit Atari is a far simpler and less in-depth game (other than the driver gimmick, the through-the-window graphics are quite crude).

My speculation is that development on the two versions diverged, the ST version was better and got a third-party publishing deal under the "Lombard" license, the 8-bit version remained less developed beyond the gimmick and was published as "Speed Run" by Red Rat themselves. Of course, this is all speculationa and unreferenced, so not suitable for the article.

If the article itself is vaguer than that on the connection, it's because I didn't really want to push or speculate too far beyond what the references actually supported.

Regarding

"Early adverts for Speed Run also mentioned an Atari ST version, but do not make clear whether that proposed version later evolved into Lombard RAC Rally instead"

I don't see anything implying that "Speed Run" is the later game. Rather, it's alluding to the fact that later (i.e. after the ad was published), the ST version (not the 8-bit version) appears to have become "Lombard" instead, but that there is no evidence definitely showing this to be the case.

tl;dr - Originally advertised as "Speed Run" for Atari 8-bit and ST in early 1988, only the 8-bit version came out under that name yet a very obviously related (but more advanced) game from the same developers came out as "Lombard".

Regarding the release date, I don't have an exact release date for Speed Run.

As you can see from the reference I provided, the advertisement from the Jan/Feb 1988 issue of Page 6 magazine advertises the 8-bit and ST versions simultaneously. Copyright date is from the same year (i.e. 1988).

Page 6 magazine reviewed it in the April/May 1989 issue (likely out late March), but they were a relatively small bi-monthly independent magazine that often had a bit of a lead time anyway, so it was quite possibly out the previous year but not in the reviewer's hands in time to review it and then have the review with them.

And the Amiga version (i.e. Lombard) doesn't appear to list any reviews before early 1989. So which came first? Who knows.

I remember hearing at one point that Red Rat cancelled the 8-bit Speed Run's release (most likely because the game itself wasn't very good) before changing their minds again.

At any rate, even if it were to have come out slightly later than the ST version (and there's no clear evidence either way), "legacy" suggests something that came out a long time after, rather than (e.g.) the timescale you might get if a C64 conversion of a game comes out a couple of months after the Spectrum release.

I should make clear that I'm not claiming any more than is referenced here regarding the "Speed Run" release date; i.e. 1988 copyright, review published early 1989. But then the same apparently applies to the Amiga version of Lombard.

Cut a long story short, there's no reason to call it a "legacy" game because it obviously isn't.

All the best,

Ubcule (talk) 21:22, 3 September 2021 (UTC)