Talk:Lore Maria Peschel-Gutzeit/GA1

GA Review

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Reviewer: A455bcd9 (talk · contribs) 11:41, 27 November 2023 (UTC)

Thanks for taking this review. – DreamRimmer (talk) 12:11, 27 November 2023 (UTC)

GA review (see here for what the criteria are, and here for what they are not)

1. It is reasonably well written.

   a (prose, spelling, and grammar): b (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists):

   Per MOS:CONTEXTLINK, many notions should be linked: family law, children's rights, gender equality, etc.

   You use the term "family senate" but it is neither linked nor defined: what is it? What does "first female president of a family senate" even mean? In the body it's written "first female president of the senate". Also: was she the first female president of any senate in the history of Germany or of the senate of Hamburg? What does it mean to be "president" of a Senate btw?

   In 1972, Peschel-Gutzeit became a family judge at the Hanseatic Higher Regional Court in Hamburg (Hanseatisches Oberlandesgericht, OLG Hamburg), where she became the first woman to chair a family senate in 1984. – DreamRimmer (talk) 13:43, 27 November 2023 (UTC)

   OK, but what is a "family senate"? The term "senate" does not appear in Hanseatisches Oberlandesgericht. You need to define it. a455bcd9 (Antoine) (talk) 14:16, 27 November 2023 (UTC)

   Family senate means division of family related matters in regional court. The term Senat (senate) in higher courts of appeal refers to the "bench" in its broader metonymy meaning, describing members of the judiciary collectively (usually five judges), often occupied with a particular subject-matter jurisdiction. However, the judges are not called "senators". The German term Strafsenat (literally "Penal Senate") in a German court translates to Bench of penal-law jurisdiction and Zivilsenat (literally "Civil Senate") to Bench of private-law jurisdiction. – DreamRimmer (talk) 14:21, 27 November 2023 (UTC)

   Please add this to the article. Can be as a footnote if you prefer ({{efn}}). It is indeed very confusing for the reader as I now understand that "Senate" can mean "Judicial bench" or "Government" depending on the context. a455bcd9 (Antoine) (talk) 14:23, 27 November 2023 (UTC)

   The term "senate" in the context of the Hanseatisches Oberlandesgericht refers to a division or chamber within the Higher Regional Court (Oberlandesgericht) that handles specific legal matters or cases. I have added (government) in bracket for government post. – DreamRimmer (talk) 14:23, 27 November 2023 (UTC)

   This is still super confusing. I would suggest a footnote {{efn|name=senate|The term {{lang|de|Senat}} (senate) can refer to the [[Bench (metonymy)|bench]] in higher [[Court of appeal|courts of appeal]] or to the executive branch in Bundesländer which form a City State (Berlin, Bremen and Hamburg).}} a455bcd9 (Antoine) (talk) 14:44, 27 November 2023 (UTC)

   On the other hand, you linked Federal Ministry of Justice (Germany) but if I understand correctly she was not Federal Minister but Senator for Justice in Hamburg and Berlin? (so the term "Minister of Justice" should probably not be used in the body either)

   In the body, you could also add links to articles like 2001 Hamburg state election, parental custody, Second State Examination in Law, State of Rhineland-Palatinate, etc.

   fixed all, added a note. – DreamRimmer (talk) 14:42, 27 November 2023 (UTC)

   Thanks, "pass". a455bcd9 (Antoine) (talk) 14:49, 27 November 2023 (UTC)

2. It is factually accurate and verifiable.

   a (reference section): b (inline citations to reliable sources): c (OR): d (copyvio and plagiarism):

   I don't think mariatherezaalves.org is RS and in any case I cannot verify the statement it is supposed to back.

   I have fixed the source and award name. – DreamRimmer (talk) 13:25, 27 November 2023 (UTC)

   Perfect, this is now a "pass" :) a455bcd9 (Antoine) (talk) 14:13, 27 November 2023 (UTC)

3. It is broad in its coverage.

   a (major aspects): b (focused):

   What was the 1988 legislative proposal about?

   What was the "PorNO campaign"?

   What does "insisted on hearing the voices of children" mean?

   She continued practicing law at her firm: there's no reference to her firm before, was she part of a larger firm? Or did she create her own firm? When?

   I also don't get how she could alternate between political positions in Berlin and Hamburg: where did she live?

   "Despite facing strong opposition": from whom?

   fixed – DreamRimmer (talk) 15:05, 27 November 2023 (UTC)

   How did you fix where she lived (between Berlin and Hamburg) and "Despite facing strong opposition"? a455bcd9 (Antoine) (talk) 15:31, 27 November 2023 (UTC)

   She served as a senator in Hamburg from 1991 to 1993, followed by her tenure as a senator in Berlin from 1994 to 1997. Later, in 2001, she resumed her position as a senator in Hamburg. Following her roles in these senatorial positions, she lived in Berlin. Additionally, the article notes that she founded a law firm in Berlin and worked there until her death. – DreamRimmer (talk) 15:33, 27 November 2023 (UTC)

   So does it mean she moved to Berlin for that? Or can she be senator in Berlin while living in Hamburg? a455bcd9 (Antoine) (talk) 15:37, 27 November 2023 (UTC)

   She was in Berlin from 1994 to 1997, and again after her term as a senator in Hamburg in 2001, she returned to Berlin and resided there until her death. – DreamRimmer (talk) 15:48, 27 November 2023 (UTC)

   May be worth adding that to "Personal life". And what about the strong opposition: from whom? How strong? For how long? etc. the more details the better. a455bcd9 (Antoine) (talk) 15:50, 27 November 2023 (UTC)

   I believe the article contains sufficient information to grasp the concept, but I can include it if you prefer...? – DreamRimmer (talk) 15:55, 27 November 2023 (UTC)

   Which concept? The article just says Despite facing strong opposition If there was strong opposition then it should be a bit more documented. Otherwise it may be better to remove "Despite facing strong opposition," altogether. a455bcd9 (Antoine) (talk) 16:01, 27 November 2023 (UTC)

   Removed – DreamRimmer (talk) 16:17, 27 November 2023 (UTC)

4. It follows the neutral point of view policy.

   Fair representation without bias:

   "she overcame wartime hardships" and "Despite political challenges" don't seem neutral, better to remove them?

   fixed – DreamRimmer (talk) 14:26, 27 November 2023 (UTC)

   Perfect, another "pass". a455bcd9 (Antoine) (talk) 14:39, 27 November 2023 (UTC)

5. It is stable.

   No edit wars, etc.:

6. It is illustrated by images and other media, where possible and appropriate.

   a (images are tagged and non-free content have non-free use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):

7. Overall:

   Pass/Fail:

   In addition to the above remarks, there are parts that I don't understand. Who raised her? Did her biological father abandon her? Please clarify this section.

   This is not mandatory, but you can also add links to pages that don't exist yet on the English Wikipedia with {{ill}}, I added an example with Senat Voscherau III. It would be useful for Regional Court of Hamburg, Deutscher Juristinnenbund, Diepgen III Senate), etc.

   Her biological father didn't play a significant role in her life as he formally adopted her only after she reached adulthood. The name of her biological father is noted in the article. I have fixed the sentence. – DreamRimmer (talk) 16:22, 27 November 2023 (UTC)

   Pass, thanks for your contribution to Wikipedia and congrats for this GA! a455bcd9 (Antoine) (talk) 16:25, 27 November 2023 (UTC)

   Thanks for such a thorough review. BTW, you can automate all GA work, such as archiving this review box and adding this to the GA directory, with this script. – DreamRimmer (talk) 16:32, 27 November 2023 (UTC)

   Thanks, I'm a bit worried about using too many scripts though... a455bcd9 (Antoine) (talk) 16:33, 27 November 2023 (UTC)

   Haha, K , Have a good day! – DreamRimmer (talk) 16:34, 27 November 2023 (UTC)