Talk:Louis Andriessen

POV

This paragraphy in particular needs to be completely reworked or omitted. I've bolded some of the most POV phrases. Some of the information is important musically, but it needs to encyclopedic, or we should remove it I think.

"Andriessen's music is somewhat unusual in contemporary European composition for being instantly recognisable as his own, both as a result of his choices of instrumentation as well as his style, which combines the strong influence of Stravinsky alongside American minimalism. His harmonic writing however eschews the often saccharine modality of much minimalism and retains the bite of post war European dissonance, crystallised into bold blocks of sound which lend much of his music an unmistakable force. Large scale pieces such as De Staat (1972-76), for example, display a relentless energy derived in part from the big band music of Count Basie and Stan Kenton, fused with Reich-esque repetitions and bright, clashing dissonances. His music is resolutely anti-Germanic and anti-Romantic, and has continued to serve as an effective alternative to post war European serialism and its offshoots.

--MarkBuckles 15:37, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

I definitely concur... Selfinformation 20:00, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

Okay, I have copyedited and rewritten that section of the article and removed the tag. -- MarkBuckles 07:25, 2 June 2006 (UTC)

Hi Mark-

The POV comments I concur with in your boldings below are 'saccharine modality' and 'effective alternative'- both of which, I agree, are subjective positions. I fail to see how 'instantly recognisable as his own', 'retains the bite', 'bold blocks of sound' and 'relentless energy' can be considered more subjective than as the crudest demarcations of a sound-world. You'll find print entries e.g. Grove habitually more subjective than these. Incidentally 'resolutely anti-Germanic' is a paraphrase of Andriessen's words and if I track down the source in due course I'll provide. I'm assuming, of course, that the syntactic re-ordering resulting in 'the bright, clashing dissonances of Steve Reich' was a mistake on your part. Luke F

You make a good point. And I like the revisions you recently made. Grove certainly isn't always objective either, but I think we can try to approach that standard as best as is possible. I don't think we can objectively say his style is 'instantly recognisable as his own', better might be to describe how it is unique (at the very least, the word "instantly" seems to be going a bit far). It's the adjectives and adverbs that often seem to provide more commentary than content. Same thing with "bold," and "relentless." "Retains the bite" I believe is subjective because its saying that post-war dissonance has "bite." How do we define what has bite and what doesn't? I know it can be a fine line sometimes. For example, your change from my "simple" to "consonant" is a clear improvement. Many articles have subtle POV's and the goal is to improve them and make them as informative and encyclopedic as possible. Best wishes and thanks for your many additions, without which this wouldn't really be an article at all. -- MarkBuckles 09:18, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

And what the **** is Germanic music? Lurs and luths or Stockhausen? Johann Strauß or Richard Strauss? Weber or Webern or Wagner? Where are the Germanic composers? Is Elgar Wagneresque enough to be Germanic? Has Boulez enough Webern to be Germanic? Does Sibelius write Germanic or Finno-Ugric music? Could this be specified enough to be understandable to anyone not familiar with the term Germanic music?

If it is a quote, then it should be labeled as such: "Andriessen defines/sees/claims his music as/to be anti-..."--megA 23:47, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

Works List

It seems like a list this long should be moved to another page List of Compositions by Louis Andriessen. That seems to be the norm in the composers articles I've seen. Thoughts? -- MarkBuckles 07:29, 2 June 2006 (UTC)

Review comments

This is a useful article which I believe needs only a little work to bring it to B class. Some suggestions for improvement as the article is expanded:

• Appropriate infobox should be added
• Photograph should be added from a source with a free license
• Some biographical information required, including dates for education, and positions held
• Lead needs expanding and should emphasise reasons for notability of subject
• Article should be divided into appropriate subheadings
• Information on works should be expanded, and in particular critical reception needs addressing
• Works list is long and could be moved to a separate article; it might also be clearer divided into sections by instrument
• References should be expanded and preferably converted to inline format
• External links present which could be used to expand article

Espresso Addict 09:31, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

Andriessen's wife

I think there's something that is not clear about Andriessen's wife:

Andriessen is married to Jeanette Yanikian, a guitarist (1935-2008). They have been a couple for over 40 years, and have been married since 1996.[1]

Next to the name there is a birth and death date, but the next sentence is in the present tense. Which one of the true is correct? The person who wrote the date may as well have meant that the guitarist is still alive (and instead of writing "1935-" they wrote "1935-2008" in ignorance).

Jujimufu (talk) 22:05, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

New page for 'Theatre of the World'?

Hello, I'm just getting into my stride as an editor and have been expanding Andriessen's 'Rosa - A Horse Drama', which is/was a stub. Please take a look.

We have pages for operas 'Rosa', 'Vermeer', 'La Commedia' Next - 2015 - came his 'Grotesque' Stagework "Theatre of the World" (LA Phil) which should have a page and I am considering creating it - it seems like it's not there because WP has not been updated recently on this composer. There's enough references to meet notability criteria I believe.

https://www.theguardian.com/music/2017/sep/28/andriessen-theatre-of-the-world-cd-review-louis

https://www.laphil.com/about/watch-listen/la-phil-recordings/andriessen

First problem is what to call the page as Theatre of the World is taken. Suggest 'Theatre of the World - stage work'. I'd love to know the best route to publishing as I've been reading the options. But I'd be grateful for some initial feedback on whether to create the page and if so, what to title it.Thelisteninghand (talk) 20:56, 22 May 2021 (UTC)

@Thelisteninghand: Per WP:DABNAME, the disambiguator should be in parentheses (e.g., Theatre of the World (stage work)). Happy editing! GoingBatty (talk) 15:14, 25 May 2021 (UTC)

OK Thanks very much. Thelisteninghand (talk) 15:25, 25 May 2021 (UTC) Happy editing! GoingBatty (talk) 15:18, 25 May 2021 (UTC)

Since I've address some of the issues above at the Teahouse, but this is a far more targeted page, I'm duplicating my post from there below.

Hi Thelisteninghand. At that talk page you've listed two source but the question is, is there enough (in such reliable, secondary, independent sources ) to sustain a stand-alone article? I suspect there is, but just these two are not enough. The first source has some substantive content; the second could only be used to verify details about one staging of the production—which certainly is a valid topic for an article on the opera—but has little content directly about the opera itself. In any event, the correct way to write an article is to gather your sources first, and then summarize only what they verify, writing in proper paraphrase. So doing that task—that needs to be done anyway in order to write the article—should answer the question for you.

As to a name, it really isn't very important what a proposed article is titled while it's outside the article mainspace. You can create it as a subpage of your user space, or in the draft namespace – the latter is commonly preferred – which would be fine as Draft:Theatre of the World. As to a sandbox, though we provide the automatic sandbox link for each user, with the generic title "Username/sandbox", you can use any name after the forward slash to designate a sandbox subpage, so the common way is to use the proposed title as the "subpage part" of the name, e.g., User:Thelisteninghand/Theatre of the World. Both of the red links I've set out here can simply be clicked on to create the page.

Finally, if a stand-alone article is warranted, once it's ready to "go live", I do not think the ultimate title that the draft should should be moved to needs title disambiguation. Rather (per many implicated parts of Wikipedia:Article titles and Wikipedia:Disambiguation), since the existing title is occupied by a redirect to Theatrum Orbis Terrarum, simply because it translates to the (adjacent but not direct) English name "Theatre of the Orb of the World", an article on the opera can be moved over the redirect, and disambiguation should be addressed by a hatnote pointing at the current redirect target. I would suggest suggest something like {{for|the 1570 atlas translating to "Theatre of the Orb of the World" in English|Theatrum Orbis Terrarum}}. Best regards--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 16:22, 25 May 2021 (UTC)

Illness

Hello, I have just added the sad news that Andriessen is suffering from dementia. I placed it under 'Personal Life". Thelisteninghand (talk) 20:12, 23 June 2021 (UTC)