Talk:Louisiana Creole

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Untitled

I'm getting a bit puzzled by this article. There has been attempts to add hoax articles on non-existent creoles, see Scottish-Gaelic creoles. I did find an article which was not a Wikipedia mirror, but looking at it carefully in places it suggests it may be talking about Cajun. Is there really such a dialect spoken in Louisiana, or is this just an alternative term for Cajun, or is this a complete hoax? Comments from people who know more than me about Louisiana or linguistics would be helpful. PatGallacher 13:23, 16 December 2005 (UTC)

Ethnologue considers Cajun French and Louisiana Creole French to be separate languages. Granted, Ethnologue is known for considering things to be separate languages that other people consider to be dialects of the same language, but I'm willing to believe them on this. I do think Louisiana Creole French would be a better name for this article than Kreyol Lwiziyen, though. I'm moving the page to Louisiana Creole French. --Angr (t·c) 13:38, 16 December 2005 (UTC)

• (I tried to post this at Talk:Kreyol Lwizyen but it had disappeared. While I agree with a move, this seems a little precipitous for something that's supposed to be under discussion. No one except Ethnologue calls it "Louisiana Creole French" to my knowledge.) I don't think this is an alternative term for Cajun. Cajuns are largely rural whites speaking a variety that their ancestors brought down from Canada. Creoles are largely descendants of West African slaves speaking a decreolized French-based variety somewhat like (but distinct from) Haitian Creole. It is listed in Ethnologue under Louisiana Crole French, and I think Louisiana Creole (language) would be a better main entry here, with a redirect from Kreyol Lwiziyen, which is just an idiosyncratic spelling of the Creole pronunciation of Creole Louisienne. A print reference is: Valdman, Albert, Thomas A. Klingler, Margaret M. Marshall, and Kevin J. Rottet (eds.). 1996. The Dictionary of Louisiana Creole. Bloomington, IN: Indiana University Press. rodii 13:52, 16 December 2005 (UTC)

I wouldn't object to a move to Louisiana Creole language (with no parentheses, since standard language article names don't have them). --Angr (t·c) 17:10, 16 December 2005 (UTC)

Maybe Louisiana Creole (Kreyol Lwiziyen), as the template has it, is a good solution. rodii 17:48, 16 December 2005 (UTC)

I don't like that at all. The title of the article itself shouldn't give variants in parentheses. I like it best under its current title, but I won't object to Louisiana Creole language. --Angr (t·c) 21:08, 16 December 2005 (UTC)

OK, no problem. I think we can agree that either is better than the original title. rodii

As for whether anyone but Ethnologue calls it Louisiana Creole French, the following are just a few of the non-Ethnologue, non-Wikipedia links I got by Googling "Louisiana Creole French": [1], [2] (called "the Louisiana Creole French tongue" at first reference, "Louisiana Creole" thereafter), the paper by Margaret Marshall cited at [3] (which itself just uses "Louisiana Creole"), [4] (once, several other times just "Louisiana Creole" on the page), [5]. My general impression is that "Louisiana Creole French" is considered the full name, "Lousiana Creole" the short name. Louisiana Creole is a dismabig pointing here; I'll make Louisiana Creole language a redirect. --Angr (t·c) 21:20, 16 December 2005 (UTC)

Agreed. This article should most definitely be listed as "Louisiana Creole language." "Louisiana Creole French" is not a term used by linguists, and for good reason. This name adds confusion between Louisiana Creole and Louisiana French, which are confused often enough by the very speakers of these languages themselves. There is certainly evidence that Louisiana Creole has deocreolized and merged with Louisiana French, but speakers of a notably basilectal variety still exist. Since the original suggestion to move the page was brought up so long ago, and since everyone who's commented so far seems to be in agreement, I'm going to go ahead and take care of it. Joshisanonymous (talk) 02:58, 14 November 2015 (UTC)

Accent

Does anyone know of a website or whatever that would have information on what the Louisiana Creole French accent sounds like? TheDragonMaster 05:01, 14 April 2007 (UTC) Yes, I'm from louisiana and know exactly what it sounds like. It sounds like someone speaking with a mouth full of golf balls, and everything is slurred. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.162.198.58 (talk) 19:44, 12 September 2008 (UTC) You can find good information at the following website :http://www.frenchcreoles.com/Cane%20River/cane%20river.htm — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jayryanm (talk • contribs) 23:37, 7 October 2013 (UTC)

Vocabulary Differences

Some references would be nice for the vocabulary differences, especially since what is written for the vocabulary (particularly the numbers) seems like it is just written phonetically how non-French speakers perceive these words when spoken e.g "wit" for "huit" is very similar to how "huit" is pronounced in Quebec French (though I've heard it also likened to "wheat" but similar). I'd like the references because it just comes off as being written by an amateur who doesn't speak French and can't make the comparison. If there are references that verify, perhaps it can just be more demonstrative. --99.246.117.217 (talk) 01:37, 14 February 2010 (UTC)

Definite Article Suffices

Hi, the article states:

In theory, Creole places its definite articles after the noun [...] Since there is no system of noun gender, articles only vary on phonetic criteria. The article a is placed after words ending in a vowel, and la is placed after words ending in a consonant.

Shouldn't it be the other way around? Usually, a consonant (in this case "l") would be added if the word ends in a vowel, so as not to get all diphthongy.

Thanks, Dave (djkernen)|Talk to me|Please help! 16:40, 30 May 2011 (UTC)

Speakers figure

Can´t we find a more recent figure? The numbers could have changed dramatically since 1985... --200.127.145.202 (talk) 21:30, 3 October 2012 (UTC)

Speaker demographics

This section of the article looks like personal research. It may very well be true, but it is not encyclopedic in tone. Misterdoe (talk) 17:17, 19 October 2012 (UTC)

The Creole Listed is not Louisiana Creole

The page is informative but the French listed is not Louisiana Creole. My family is Louisiana Creole and has been in Houston, Texas since the 1920's in what used to be called Frenchtown (now it is called 5th Ward, Texas). What you have listed is Haitian Creole which is VERY DIFFERENT. For instance, we use Je for I, not MO. Also to reference a difference with Parisian French, to ask a persons name you would say: Quel est votre nom?...In Louisiana Creole or Cajun you would say: "Quoi ce ton nom?". Another example of the difference in Louisiana Creole would be the use of adverbs... in Parisian French, the word: "très" means "Very" in English. In Louisiana Creole / Cajun we use "beaucoup". Example: Mon culture c'est beaucoup différent a Haitian Creole. Send me a message if you want to learn more about the culture, language & food. Dieudonne3573 (talk) 18:46, 12 March 2014 (UTC)

This is not Haitian Creole... Savvyjack23 (talk) 07:01, 13 June 2014 (UTC)

I'm sorry, your family does, in fact, speak Louisiana French, not Louisiana Creole. There's often confusion about this as ethnic backgrounds often leads to blacks saying that they speak Creole and whites saying that they speak French, when in reality there's no strict separation of speakers of either language along ethnic lines. Joshisanonymous (talk) 02:45, 14 November 2015 (UTC)

Creoles in Louisiana

Creole comes from the Spanish crioll, mean a child born in the colonies. As it relates to Louisiana it means the French or Spanish and any mixed French/Spanish inhabitants, according to usage in Memories of the Old Plantation Home by Laura Lacoule Gore (1861-1962.) Laura Lacoule was a plantation heiress who considered herself a creole, as distinct from the Americans.Phmoreno (talk) 18:03, 19 June 2014 (UTC)

It doesn't relate to what the name of the language is as a formal matter. Lots of creole languages are name Something Pidgin" (or some variant spelling of "Pidgin") but are not pidgins. The linguistic sense of "creole" is derive from the French and related Spanish and Portuguese words for people of mixed ancestry of particular types, but the linguistic concept has nothing to do with ancestry, just as the metaphoric sense of being a chicken or playing chicken does not involve any actual poultry. :-) PS: The Spanish word is criollo; there is no word "crioll" in Spanish, a language that does not end words with -ll.  — SMcCandlish ☺ ☏ ¢ ≽^ʌⱷ҅_ᴥⱷ^ʌ≼  02:34, 28 November 2015 (UTC)

Requested move 14 November 2015

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: No move. After two weeks and a relisting, we have consensus against the proposed title. Cúchullain ^t/c 16:31, 30 November 2015 (UTC)

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Louisiana Creole French → Louisiana Creole language – Suggested title was discussed in Talk 10 years ago with no disagreement. New title is that used universally for this language by linguists. – Joshisanonymous (talk) 03:19, 14 November 2015 (UTC) Relisted. Jenks24 (talk) 11:31, 22 November 2015 (UTC)

Moved from WP:RMTR

• Object to RMTR a 10 year old discussion is not current. Establish a new discussion -- 70.51.44.60 (talk) 04:41, 14 November 2015 (UTC)

@Joshisanonymous and 70.51.44.60: This is a contested technical request (permalink). Anthony Appleyard (talk) 06:07, 14 November 2015 (UTC)

Survey

• Oppose: Adding "language" at the end is unnecessary natural disambiguation where there's no evidence of it being ambiguous with anything. The nom's suggestion that the longer name is "universal" among linguists seems questionable, [6]; even when "French" is not appended, "language" of often is not, either. We're appending "French" here because that is a natural disambiguation, from the Louisiana Creole people (who are not French, only part French, and not even always, since anyone growing up to speak it will be a speaker of it regardless of their genetics). It might be the majority usage, but it's difficult to ascertain this without more research, and the nom hasn't provided any. Coming from a linguistic background, it appears to me to be pointlessly redundant to append "language" after any creole with "Creole" (however spelled) in it's name. The only disambiguation that would normally need to be done is if something that is named the Foo Creole (or Kriol, etc.) is actually classified as a pidgin, in which case we'd use "pidgin" as a disambiguator (natural or parenthetic); the linguistic meaning of "creole" presupposes already that we're talking about a natural language with native speakers, not a pidgin or argot.  — SMcCandlish ☺ ☏ ¢ ≽^ʌⱷ҅_ᴥⱷ^ʌ≼  02:34, 28 November 2015 (UTC)
• Oppose - it is Creole French. Agree with above. —Мандичка^YO 😜 14:26, 30 November 2015 (UTC)

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

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Are these typos?

The Origins & historical development section includes the following two statements:

The first document found to acknowledge the existence of the Louisiana Creole was a transcript from a murder trial in 1978.

The term “Criollo” appeared in a legal court document dated 1972;

(Emphasis added.) The dates don't fit into the context. Should they be 1798 and 1792, respectively? Something else entirely? −Theodore Kloba (☎) 21:41, 2 July 2019 (UTC)

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