Talk:Lucas di Grassi

Small point but

this page links to a pay site to confirm the information within. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 86.140.68.158 (talk) 10:33, 21 February 2007 (UTC).

Capitalisation

Some sources refer to this person as "Lucas di Grassi" (i.e. with a lower case 'd') and others as "Lucas Di Grassi" (i.e. with a capital 'D'). His official website consistently uses capital 'D', so it seems reasonable for us to follow that example. Currently, all references to this person within the English Wikipedia (that I'm aware of) also use capital 'D'. DH85868993 (talk) 22:19, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

To re-open this discussion: his Twitter page (which is followed by the likes of Rubens Barrichello, so we know it is real) uses a lower-cased 'd' in his name. I suggest, therefore, that we move the page. Cdhaptomos talk–contribs 19:11, 27 July 2009 (UTC)

Also, autosport.com consistently uses a lower-cased 'd'. Cdhaptomos talk–contribs 15:43, 3 October 2009 (UTC)

I don't really care whether we use a capital 'D' or a lower case 'd'; my only request would be that if the article is changed to use a lower case 'd', then the editor who moves the page also goes through and updates all the references to Di Grassi, including those where only his surname is used. DH85868993 (talk) 22:19, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

It depends upon the context. If the surname is used alone, or is placed first, "Di Grassi, Lucas" is correct; but if placed after the forename, "Lucas di Grassi" is correct. See, for example, Elio de Angelis; Andrea de Cesaris; Maria Teresa de Filippis; Fritz d'Orey; Hernando da Silva Ramos. --Redrose64 (talk) 22:08, 3 January 2010 (UTC)

To clarify, are you saying it should be "Senna followed De Cesaris" rather than "Senna followed de Cesaris"? If so, then I disagree. (Noting that the point may be moot if it is decided to leave Di Grassi with a capital 'D') DH85868993 (talk) 22:36, 3 January 2010 (UTC)

Oh sorry. I meant in lists, start of sentences etc. In regular text, it would be "Senna followed de Cesaris". --Redrose64 (talk) 22:41, 3 January 2010 (UTC)

Formula1.com and Virgin Racing both use 'di Grassi'. Also, the official website that User:DH85868993 referenced in May 2008 at the start of this discussion now says 'under construction', and also uses a small 'd'. This Formula 1 news story shows that when preceded with 'Lucas' it should read 'Lucas di Grassi' ("Brazilian driver Lucas di Grassi will partner Toyota refugee Timo Glock "), yet when just his surname, regardless of its point in the sentence, it uses 'Di Grassi': "The signing of Di Grassi, Renault’s third driver for the past two seasons". I would selfishly like to cancel myself out of the running to move the page and change all links etc. - mspete93 23:29, 3 January 2010 (UTC)

Agreed. There seems to be both acknoeldgement from the source and precedent. Yes to the move from me. --Falcadore (talk) 23:55, 3 January 2010 (UTC)

OK, there seems to be an emerging consensus towards a lower case 'd'. If there are no dissenting opionions in the next 24 hours, I'll request that the article be moved to Lucas di Grassi. DH85868993 (talk) 01:56, 4 January 2010 (UTC)

I've requested the move (see the "Requested move" section below). Once the move has occurred, I'll update all the references. DH85868993 (talk) 09:05, 5 January 2010 (UTC)

In Spanish, these kind of surnames are written with the first letter on upper case when starting the sentence ("Von Neumann came yesterday...") and when preceded by a "normal" word ("Senna followed De Cesaris"), and not when preceded by Mr., Lord or any of those titles ("Mr. de Boer", "PhD von Neumann") and when preceded by their name ("Lucas di Grassi"). I don't know the English style. --NaBUru38 (talk) 23:03, 8 January 2010 (UTC)

The problem is that English doesn't have a formal capitalisation style for such names (English is a crazy mixed-up language in any case). Surnames beginning with a small word which means "of", "son of" or "from", etc. are unusual in English. Almost all "English" people with such names can trace non-English origin - this primarily includes the Irish and Scots forms such as McXxxx, MacXxxx and O'Xxxx (which always have the prefix capitalised, and normally the main part of the name as well); the closest true English equivalent to these is in suffixed surnames of the form Xxxxs or Xxxxson, where the capitalisation question does not arise. Since we don't have a formal style for prefixed surnames other than the Irish/Scots forms which I have just described, the English approach to other prefixed surnames can be somewhat slapdash, with people not understanding what they're writing - even with Welsh names of the form ap Xxxx.

To my mind the correct thing to do is to follow the convention of whatever country the name comes from. The subject of the article whose name is in question is Brazilian, and Brazilian names are often Portuguese in origin: Family name#Portuguese-speaking countries isn't much help here, but I don't expect the convention to differ much from Spanish as described by NaBUru38 above. --Redrose64 (talk) 12:18, 9 January 2010 (UTC)

The page has now been moved (see below). Per my own request above, as the initiator of the move request, I'll update all the links within the next few days (I'm just about to head interstate for 3 days and won't have time to do it before I go, but I'll do it when I get back - unless someone else beats me to it). DH85868993 (talk) 08:07, 14 January 2010 (UTC)

Done. Wherever his full name was used, I changed "Lucas Di Grassi" to "Lucas di Grassi" (except for the external link in this article to his statistics at Driver Database, because it's written on that page as "Lucas Di Grassi"). Due to a lack of consensus above, wherever it was just his surname, I left the existing capitalisation. DH85868993 (talk) 09:26, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

BoreCZECH

Di Grassi is BoreCZECH. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.176.27.93 (talk) 16:15, 7 December 2009 (UTC)

I'm sorry, but I don't understand what you mean. Can you please clarify? DH85868993 (talk) 01:29, 9 December 2009 (UTC)

Picture is incorrect

The picture at the Formula E race in Berlin is of Lucas' teammate Daniel Abt, not Lucas. Lucas wears a helmet which resembles the Brazilian flag. (I would fix this, but I don't have a better picture handy, so I thought I would just point it out.)

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: page moved per discussion above. - GTBacchus^(talk) 06:53, 14 January 2010 (UTC)

---

Lucas Di Grassi → Lucas di Grassi — Per the discussion above.—DH85868993 (talk) 09:04, 5 January 2010 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

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