Talk:Lucy Somerset

Mother

Are we sure that Lucy was the daughter of Margaret Courtenay? Different sources are conflicting.

• John [Nevill], 4th Baron Latymer mar. Lady Lucy Somerset (d. 23 Feb 1581/2), only dau. of Henry [Somerset], 2nd Earl of Worcester, by his first wife and second cousin Lady Margaret Courtenay, dau. of William [Courtenay], 1st Earl of Devon (cr. 1511), by his wife Lady Katherine Plantagenet, 6th dau. of King Edward IV, by his wife Lady Elizabeth Grey, widow of John [Grey], 2nd Baron Grey of Groby, and 1st dau. of Richard [Wydville], 1st Earl Rivers. -- http://www.cracroftspeerage.co.uk/online/content/Latymer1431.htm#LATYMER_1432_9
  

• Margaret Courtenay and Sir Henry Somerset, 2nd Earl Worcester obtained a marriage license on 15 June 1514; Date of Papal Dispensation. They had no issue. 1,2,3 Sources:
  • [1] The Complete Peerage of England, Scotland, Ireland, Great Britain, and the United Kingdom, by George Edward Cokayne, Vol. XII/2, p. 852.
    
  • [2] Douglas Richardson, Plantagenet Ancestry, p. 801.
    
  • [3] Douglas Richardson, Magna Carta Ancestry, 2nd Edition, Vol. I, p. 551.
    

• Margaret Courtenay was born circa 1499.2 She married Henry Somerset, 2nd Earl of Worcester, son of Charles Somerset, 1st Earl of Worcester and Elizabeth Herbert, Baroness Herbert, circa 15 June 1514, with a Papal dispensation.1 She died before 15 April 1526, without issue.
  

Source: G.E. Cokayne; with Vicary Gibbs, H.A. Doubleday, Geoffrey H. White, Duncan Warrand and Lord Howard de Walden, editors, The Complete Peerage of England, Scotland, Ireland, Great Britain and the United Kingdom, Extant, Extinct or Dormant, new ed., 13 volumes in 14 (1910-1959; reprint in 6 volumes, Gloucester, U.K.: Alan Sutton Publishing, 2000), volume XII/2, page 852. -- Lady Meg (talk) 05:57, 1 October 2011 (UTC)

I agree those are very reliable sources (Cokayne, Richardson) that state Margaret did not have issue. We need to sort this out. Thanks for drawing attention to the possible error as to her mother's identity.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 07:10, 1 October 2011 (UTC)

I'm changing it to Eleanor Browne. Not only do those sources say Eleanor, but here is the actual wording from Cokayne which can be found, here (click). "Henry Somerset Earl of Worcester married firstly about July 1520 Margaret (then living and in attendance on the infant Princess Mary) da of William Courtenay Earl op Devon by the Lady Katharine Plantagenet yst da of Edward IV. She d.s.p."

The only thing that bothered me was the paragraph on Kathy Lynn Emerson's page which has no source.

LUCY SOMERSET (1524-February 23, 1582/3) -- Lucy Somerset is the "daughter" of the mysterious “Madam Albart” of a letter of Ambassador Chapuys to Charles V in 1542, naming her as one of three young ladies in whom King Henry VIII was showing a marked interest. Queen Catherine Howard was at that time in the Tower, facing execution, and the king was known to be looking for a sixth bride. Lucy was the daughter of Henry Somerset, 2nd earl of Worcester and Lord Herbert of Ragland (1499-November 26,1549) and his first wife, Margaret Courtenay (c.1499-April 14,1526). She may have been styled Lady Lucy Herbert and Chapuys’s “Albart” would be typical of his misspellings of English names. Lucy’s stepmother was Elizabeth Browne (1500-1565), the sister of Sir Anthony Browne, thus explaining Chapuys’s further identification of her as Browne’s niece. “The Lady Lucy” was a maid of honor to Catherine Howard and in 1545 married Queen Katherine Parr’s stepson, John Neville, 4th baron Latimer (c.1520-April 22,1577) and was part of Katherine’s household as Lady Latimer. They had four daughters: Catherine (1546-October 28, 1596), Dorothy (1547-March 23, 1608/9), Lucy (d.April 39,1608), and Elizabeth (c.1550-1630). Lucy was buried in Hackney. -- Lady Meg (talk) 04:38, 2 October 2011 (UTC)

Yes I agree that evidence shows Eleanor Browne to have been Lucy's mother. I think had Lucy been the great-granddaughter of Edward IV (putting her in the line of succession), it would have been noted by numerous scholars and biographers.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 08:34, 2 October 2011 (UTC)