Talk:Luvsannamsrain Oyun-Erdene

Patronymic and given name

The note in the header claims that Oyun-Erdene is the patronymic. Normally the patronymic comes first in Mongolian names. Is it an error? Abc347834 (talk) 07:21, 2 May 2022 (UTC)

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His name is not Luvsannamsrain Oyun-Erdene

His legal name is Oyun-Erdene Luvsannamsrai. "Luvsannamsrain Oyun-Erdene" only used for foreign media, which literally means Oyun-Erdene of Luvsannamsrai. Mongolians use their fathers name as their family name. In Mongolia people never ever use their last name for anything. Mongolians has only one name. So in order the get adressed by their TRUE NAME(Surname), we use deliberatly use "iin" or "giin" or "nii" at the end of our last name. My name is for example Aldar Bayartsogt. if i were a public figure, media should refer me as Bayartsogt"iin" Aldar(tran. Aldar of Bayartsogt), which is in fact not my LEGAL or real name. Gologmine (talk) 00:54, 9 December 2023 (UTC)

@C.Fred Gologmine (talk) 00:55, 9 December 2023 (UTC)

@Gologmine The sources in the article show his name otherwise. Remember, this is the English Wikipedia, which means the name will be rendered in English. —C.Fred (talk) 01:28, 9 December 2023 (UTC)

Thats why I am changing it into English version. No Mongolian travels with passport thats written a name with "n". On his passport its written Surname as Oyun-Erden Last name as Luvsannamsrai. Same goes for me. Luvsannamsrain Oyun-Erdene is only used in Mongolian language. Thats why I changed it. You said yourself its Enlgish wikipedia. You are changing it back into Mongolian version. Gologmine (talk) 01:43, 9 December 2023 (UTC)

And the parliament website shows his name in patronymic-given order, not given-patronymic, so there is no support for changing the order of the name. I'll check the other English sources about the trailing "n". —C.Fred (talk) 01:31, 9 December 2023 (UTC)

Sources don't have the trailing "n", so that needs changed. I need a source for the Mongolian spelling to see if that changes also, and I need to check MOS to see if there's guidance on Mongolian name order. —C.Fred (talk) 01:37, 9 December 2023 (UTC)

https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/speeches-remarks/2023/08/02/remarks-by-vice-president-harris-and-prime-minister-oyun-erdene-luvsannamsrai-of-mongolia/ even white house wrote his name as Oyun-Erdene Luvsannamsrai. Gologmine (talk) 01:58, 9 December 2023 (UTC)

ok. how about this? https://www.linkedin.com/in/oyunerdene-luvsannamsrai-b485a575/?originalSubdomain=mn Linkedin is reliable source I guess. Its clearly written as Oyunerdene Luvsannamsrai? If Barack Obama was a Mongolian, his name would be Obamagiin Barack. Its mongolian language grammar. You can check on google translate by putting "Лувсаннамсрайн Оюун-Эрдэнэ", it will come out as Oyunerdene of Luvsannamsrai. This trailling "iin" is Mongolian language grammar. I suggest you, use at least correct version in English as Oyunerdene of Luvsannamsrai. Using names with directly with "n"traillings is relatively new culture. Only government officials use it regularly, to spread correct term in foreign meida. For example in Dulguun's article, her name in Mongolian written as Одхүүгийн Дөлгөөн(Dulguun of Odkhuu) with "n" trailing same as "Лувсаннамсрайн Оюун-Эрдэнэ". Gologmine (talk) 01:53, 9 December 2023 (UTC)

https://www.thecrimson.com/article/2021/2/8/hks-graduate-appointed-mongolian-leader/ i found another source. Since Harvard has his application form, they wrote his correct LEGAL aka OFFICIAL name. Gologmine (talk) 01:56, 9 December 2023 (UTC)

As I noted at Wikipedia talk:Naming conventions (people), it looks like the trailing "n" (genitive case?) is not used in English-language print sources, so again, I agree with that change. The other question is name order. English-language sources seem to be split on that, based on what's in the article currently. —C.Fred (talk) 02:12, 9 December 2023 (UTC)

https://thediplomat.com/2023/08/mongolian-prime-ministers-us-visit-marks-elevation-of-mongolias-role-in-indo-pacific/ See they all using his name as Oyun-Erdene Luvsannamsrai. Luvsannamsrain Oyun-Erdene is direct spelling from Mongolian language, which translates into English as Oyun-Erdene of Luvsannamsrai. So correct the article. Gologmine (talk) 02:10, 9 December 2023 (UTC)

So here's the thing. The article was correct, per Wikipedia:Naming conventions (Mongolian). Patronymic first, rendered in genitive case. —C.Fred (talk) 02:37, 9 December 2023 (UTC)

@DreamRimmer here is well explained. 193.23.163.239 (talk) 12:56, 3 January 2024 (UTC)