Talk:Lysine

Sources of lysine

"As an essential amino acid, lysine is not synthesized in animals," except when we goto Dietary sources:

Catfish, channel, farmed, raw: 9.19% of the protein is lysine.[13] Chicken, roasting, meat and skin, cooked, roasted: 8.11% of the protein is lysine.[14] Beef, ground, 90% lean/10% fat, cooked: 8.31% of the protein is lysine.[15]

My biology is fuzzy, but aren't those animals? --Jeff — Preceding unsigned comment added by 199.43.48.131 (talk) 15:58, 23 October 2012 (UTC)

Lysine is essential for all vertebrates ( http://jn.nutrition.org/content/137/6/1626S.full ). The examples you mention above are animals which have in turn consumed lysine in their diet. I will add the proper citations and clarifications later. Abergabe (talk) 12:01, 24 February 2015 (UTC)

What the heck is "Spinach (1,740–20,664 ppm) in slant"? What's "slant"? I've looked in some dictionaries, they don't have any definitions that seem to do with vegetables. --71.125.9.209 07:51, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for the note 71.125.9.209, one of the editors made a typo an year ago. I have corect it back. I'm not sure if "Plant" is correct, as that would mean the whole plant, not just the seeds, the leaves, the roots or whatever, and in that case there is no need for the "in Plant". -- Boris 19:24, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

Under properties I think there should be a citation for suchs things like lysines importance in "recovering from surgery." Sounds too much like people hawking the supplement the way it is written. Knowledge JunkieKJ

I agree, there are many instances of these Claims.. Perhaps make a new sections entitled Claims for these "home remedy" types of things. Another example is in there below: "...beneficial for those with herpes simplex infections" Rage italic 17:38, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

Please : I think Buckwheat should be added to the list of products with high lysine, i'm sorry i'm to ignorant yet to do it myself, there is a reference for it in the same website as most other products listed ... I also think someone should revise the data and check to give mentions for raw or cooked or anything pertinent for fair comparison. see : http://www.bitterpoison.com/protein/20009/ and http://www.bitterpoison.com/protein/20010/
thanks Zigomar7 (talk) 21:31, 27 November 2015 (UTC)

BUCKWHEAT has a lysine to arginine ratio of .68. Arginine and lysine share metabolic pathways and cat transporters. Arginine will displace the lysine at this ratio and reduce the bioavailability of lysine. I suggest foods over 2.0 lysine to arginine for the purposes of healing. Bo K 200.42.203.39 (talk) 02:59, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

Cleanup

Added cleanup tag in order to let people know the article is not up to Wikipedia standards. There are spurious claims and the content does not match the other amino acids included in the stub. Rage italic 17:56, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

It says that humans cannot replicate this chemical, however Lysine price fixing —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.220.56.151 (talk) 21:54, 15 December 2007 (UTC)

Wrong diagram on page

May I note that the diagram on the far right does not represent the formula. It is showing a carbon atom instead of a nitrogen one. I'm fairly new to Wikipedia and I am still working out how to go about making a notification of an error. (Spongefeast (talk) 18:20, 25 October 2009 (UTC))

This isn't a mistake, but it is confusing.

The 3D diagram on the right in the infobox is from the crystal structure of L-lysine monohydrochloride dihydrate. The nitrogen atom in question is protonated. The appropriate corresponding skeletal formula is shown below alongside the 3D model:

Ben (talk) 18:29, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

That seems to have cleared up the confusion. This must be further than anything I have studied yet. Should the skeleton diagram you have shown there not be on the main page? The one on the main page has just 2 hydrogen on each nitrogen atom. (Spongefeast (talk) 23:17, 26 October 2009 (UTC))

I just looked at the page and concluded that the line diagram and 3-D diagram do not show the same molecule and I am not sure either one is Lysine. The description page for the 3-D diagram says it is a lysine cation, ie not lysine. The page implies that the 3-D diagram is lysine and it isnt, so how is this not a mistake? Sandpiper (talk) 05:59, 20 July 2012 (UTC)

I agree that the infobox is now confusing because the line diagram and the ball-and-stick model do not correspond to the same state of ionization. It will be clear to readers who have taken a course in biochemistry, but that does not include all readers. I think it would be better to follow the example of the article on glycine and use two line diagrams and two ball-and-stick models that correspond, and add appropriate explanatory labels.

However the discussion at User talk:Benjah-bmm27#lysine seems to suggest that the neutral ball-and-stick model is not available. In that case I would still include two line drawings, and indicate which one corresponds to the ball-and-stick model which is included. Dirac66 (talk) 22:15, 21 July 2012 (UTC)

Maize

This topic needs a comment and link to the topic on Quality Maize. High lysine (and tryptophan) corn is an important technological achievement. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 129.171.150.154 (talk) 19:22, 7 January 2010 (UTC)

Nothing on the widely-touted immune effects?

All I ever read about is how lysine pills protect you from, and help you get over colds and flu faster. Shocked to find nothing about that here. W@ntonsoup (talk) 23:00, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

Wikipedia doesn't mention these pills because they don't do anything for you. Lysine pills are like any "dietary supplement" product, just a scam to get your money.

Following that theme, I don't think the reference to Pauling about lysine and ascorbic acid is useful. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 129.171.150.154 (talk) 19:18, 7 January 2010 (UTC)

Why not (Pauling)? Because he waited until after his second Nobel Prize to promote "orthomolecular" medicine? Funny term now, but his subsequent work has been accepted as scientific truth, again.212.149.205.113 (talk) 20:57, 26 January 2010 (UTC)

Nothing on fungal biosynthetic pathway via alpha-aminoadipate?

See http://pathway.yeastgenome.org/YEAST/new-image?type=PATHWAY&object=LYSINE-AMINOAD-PWY&detail-level=2. Woodlore (talk) —Preceding undated comment was added at 14:30, 16 February 2009 (UTC).

Mislabeled references

There are several references to "Helena Kloosterman; USDA National Nutrient Database for Standard Reference. Essential Amino Acids Search, …" that link to a website named "bitter poison" that apparently has nothing to do with the USDA. Either the label or the link is wrong. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.217.172.71 (talk) 12:36, 1 March 2011 (UTC)

All refs removed. HK and USDA were the correct sources, but no idea why that info had been copied into 'bitter poison' and then ref'd there. For the moment, no refs at all, but I intend to ref it as one ref to a USDA site. David notMD (talk) 13:07, 12 June 2017 (UTC)

3,6-Triaminohexanoic acid

The infobox suggests that an alternative name for Lysine is 3,6-Triaminohexanoic acid, but that can't be right can it, since Lysine has only two amino groups. Surely 3,6-diaminohexanoic acid would be right? Francis Davey (talk) 07:35, 9 February 2015 (UTC)

The entry for Beta-Lysine suggests this is a beta form of the amino acid and that "di-" is correct. I don't know what the convention is for biochemical infoboxes and therefore don't know whether that is appropriate. Structurally the two amino acids are different (if one is 2 and the other 3 aminated). "tri-" still wrong though surely? Francis Davey (talk) 07:38, 9 February 2015 (UTC)

Recommendations for Lysine Page

Metabolism Both the Metabolism and Synthesis sections are small but important. Something to mention under Metabolism is the Saccharopine dehydrogenase enzyme and its role in degradation of lysine. Some articles also mentioned that lysine degradative enzymes are not correlated with an animal's diet but saccharopine oxidoreductase is correlated to an animal's diet. Lysine Supplementation:

There are also articles published about lysine supplementation and the reduction of cold sore outbreaks and reduction in healing time. Recent research does show some correlation between supplementation and reduction of cold sore outbreaks or healing time (Arzo12 (talk) 23:49, 23 September 2016 (UTC))

All the studies on Lysine in relation to cold sores need to be retested now with the removal of caffeine/coffee and the results will be vastly different in favor of lysine. Consumption of caffeine temporarily halts of the consumption of arginine by the brain which in turn raises the arginine levels to be used in other metabolic pathways. IE displace lysine and prevent lysine from the anti viral replication inhibition process. Also, dose in Males should be 1,500mg and females 1000mg unless they experience cold hands and feet. Reduce dose to 500mg unless the tingle begins and temporarily raise the dose to 2000mg for a day or 2. Bo K 200.42.203.39 (talk) 03:09, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

Herpes simplex cold sores lit

Text revised to statement that it might help (supported by review in supplement industry supported journal) and statement that evidence is not sufficient to support a benefit claim (supported by Cochrane Reviews review). Cochrane considered authoritative. David notMD (talk) 11:38, 12 June 2017 (UTC)

Hi, what was your point again? I cannot fully agree with the "Disupted", because several research papers are available which show some evidence despite the unknown correlations, mechanisms, etc. Tankersley writes "...the lack of arginine or histidine, and possibly the presence of lysine, would interfere markedly with virus synthesis", but concludes that "no ready explanation is available for any of these observations". Medlineplus.gov mentions that "Herpes: There is a concern that L-arginine might make herpes worse. There is some evidence that L-arginine is needed for the herpes virus to multiply.", something, unless not reviewed for a while, seems not "disputed". KR 17387349L8764 (talk) 21:54, 27 May 2021 (UTC)

Further study by Mailoo et al. conclude that "In the absence of such research, on the balance of possible risk to benefit, clinicians could consider advising patients that there is a theoretical role of lysine supplementation in the prevention of herpes simplex sores but the research evidence is insufficient to back this. Patients with cardiovascular or gallbladder disease should be cautioned and warned of the theoretical risks." KR 17387349L8764 (talk) 21:59, 27 May 2021 (UTC)

Definition of 'aliphatic'

Depending on who you ask, aliphatic can either mean "an organic compound that's not aromatic" or "a compound exclusively made of carbon and hydrogen that's not aromatic". The definitions seem to have about 50/50 prevalence all over the internet and even within just scientific literature. I don't know if it makes sense to definitively declare it aliphatic when the word is ambiguous. 129.10.9.38 (talk) 18:27, 29 September 2017 (UTC)

Your point is a good one, except that I didn't see the 50/50 aspect. Do you have a citation?

The Wikipedia article says, "It contains an α-amino group (which is in the protonated −NH+

3 form under biological conditions), an α-carboxylic acid group (which is in the deprotonated −COO− form under biological conditions), and a side chain lysyl ((CH2)4NH2), classifying it as a basic, charged (at physiological pH), aliphatic amino acid." which I disagree with because Googling around showed me that lysine is not aliphatic.

I Googled "list of aliphatic amino acids". Top of page one of the hits was "Alanine, isoleucine, leucine, proline, and valine, are all aliphatic amino acids.

Methionine is sometimes considered an aliphatic amino acid even though the side chain contains a sulfur atom because it is fairly non-reactive like the true aliphatic amino acids.", a quote from Helmenstine, Anne Marie, Ph.D. "Aliphatic Amino Acid Definition." ThoughtCo, Aug. 26, 2020, thoughtco.com/definition-of-aliphatic-amino-acid-604759. Nowhere is lysine even mentioned in that.

https://biologydictionary.net/amino-acids/ says, "Aliphatic amino acids are non-polar and hydrophobic. As the numbers of carbon atoms on the side chain increases, hydrophobicity increases. The aliphatic amino acids are alanine, glycine, isoleucine, leucine, proline, and valine; although glycine has so few carbon atoms it is neither hydrophilic nor hydrophobic. Methionine is sometimes called the honorary member of the aliphatic group. Its side chain contains a sulfur atom instead of carbon and hydrogen atoms but, like the aliphatic group, does not react strongly in the presence of other molecules as aliphatic amino acids do not have a positive or negative charge but equal charge distribution across the molecule." No mention of lysine even as a borderline or dubious case.

The claim should be deleted or justified. As it stands, there is nothing in the body of the article expanding on this unsupported statement in the intro. Polar Apposite (talk) 08:56, 9 March 2023 (UTC)

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Reference 80 seems to contradict the text it is attached to

In the Disputed Roles section, this reference...

Milman N, Scheibel J, Jessen O (1980). "Lysine prophylaxis in recurrent herpes simplex labialis: a double-blind, controlled crossover study". Acta Dermato-Venereologica. 60 (1): 85–7. PMID 6153847

seems to contradict what is written in the Disputed Roles section of this article - if I am reading and understanding them correctly.

"On the whole, lysine prophylaxis had no effect on the recurrence rate of herpes simplex. However, significantly more patients were recurrence-free during lysine than during placebo treatment (p = 0.05), suggesting that certain patients may benefit from prophylactic lysine administration. In the herpes lesions described, lysine had no effect on the rate of healing or on the appearance of the lesions at their worst."

I understand that the reference used mentions that more patients were recurrence-free during treatment with lysine, however, they also mention that lysine had no effect on the rate of healing or on the appearance of the lesions caused by the virus.

The finding was that lysine had no effect on the course of an outbreak, but decreased the frequency of outbreaks. It's a primary study which would fail WP:MEDRS. Out-of-date reviews suggested that there might have been something to it prior to the introduction of specific antivirals.[1] The latest Cochrane review (2015) found nothing to it for HSV1.[2] AAFP listed lysine as a possible alternate treatment with limited supporting data in 2005,[3] but didn't mention it in 2016.[4] A little more digging might create a good historical context. BiologicalMe (talk) 14:36, 17 July 2018 (UTC)

history section for lysine

I was reading the articles of other amino acids on wikipedia and they seem to have a separate section for history/naming. However, in this article it is just a paragraph in the introduction? How about adding a history section for this article?66.44.94.193 (talk) 05:30, 10 October 2021 (UTC)

Wrong 3D model

The JSmol model for zwitterionic lysine is wrong! The molecule should be protonated on the epsilon amino group! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 37.221.242.34 (talk) 10:52, 16 May 2022 (UTC)

@IP user. Please see discussion at WT:WikiProject_Chemistry#JSmol model for zwitterionic lysine is wrong for attempts to reach a consensus on this. Please make comments there, with reliable sources, if you have them. Mike Turnbull (talk) 11:25, 18 May 2022 (UTC)