Talk:Lytton wildfire

Photo?

Hi, a current photo would be appropriate. If possible the same camera location and field of view as the photo in the infobox in the Lytton, BC article. The photo should be placed in commons.wikimedia.org and can then be cited here. Regards, ... PeterEasthope (talk) 02:35, 6 July 2021 (UTC)

NNTC and Lytton FN

The Wikipedia articles for Nlaka'pamux Nation Tribal Council and Lytton First Nation say that the latter is not a member of the former. However, the websites for NNTC and Lytton FN say they are associated. The Lytton FN websites says: "The Lytton First Nation is currently affiliated to the Nlaka'pamux Nation Tribal Council. The Tribal association does not provide direct services as the Lytton First Nation administers all the services to the membership." A Toronto Star article says: "Matt Pasco, chair of the regional Nlaka’pamux Nation Tribal Council, whose member communities include the Lytton First Nation, said Friday that Lytton First Nation members who occupy a number of reserves around the village of Lytton had suffered 'significant' property loss due to the fire, adding that hundreds of members had been evacuated from the region." Could someone explain the discrepancy? TheTrolleyPole (talk) 20:07, 9 July 2021 (UTC)

Anecdotal evidence but

The train passing through Lytton "several hours" before the video was shot makes no sense, as it was shot less than an hour's drive south of Lytton. It is true that the railway said this, but it simply makes no sense. Elinruby (talk) 22:19, 18 July 2021 (UTC)

Some North American freight trains are slow. They're up to a mile or more long with up to c. 100 tons per car and only a few thousand horsepower. A big rig truck is 40 tons gross and has about 500-600 horsepower. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 00:19, 19 July 2021 (UTC)

They travel at a pretty good clip through there. Some of the emergency measures put into place as a result of this fire include a speed limit, which is presumably means trains used to exceed that limit before the fire. I realize this cannot be cited on Wikipedia, but I am deeply suspicious of that CN statement based on statements from people who were there. There’s are probably however secondary sources who wrote the story from this angle; haven’t really looked yet. But you seem to have some topic knowledge; do you know the name of the train cars that squirt water? Elinruby (talk) 00:52, 23 July 2021 (UTC)

fire train? Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 01:40, 23 July 2021 (UTC)

Maybe something like that. But people are talking about a single car like that, on each train Elinruby (talk) 10:15, 24 July 2021 (UTC)

US English: water car Canadian English: ? same thing? Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 14:16, 24 July 2021 (UTC)

Other quibbles

Boston Bar per se is not battling wildfires. The area that caught fire just after the Lytton fire is only about half a mile north of the town, but fortunately was quickly extinguished. Also, CN and CP are sharing a track through Lytton. Elinruby (talk) 22:28, 18 July 2021 (UTC)

Since nobody has answered this I have removed the following text:

By July 3, many Lytton residents had evacuated to nearby community of Boston Bar, where firefighters were also battling wildfires.

For the following reasons:

• A fire started *near* Boston Bar, also on June 30, within the same hour as the Lytton fire, but was put out the same day. “By July 3” Boston Bar was not battling a fire. This was, I think, a case of a German newspaper interview another reporter (see source) with neither knowing much about the area. Even though the source is generally reliable, this statement is not within the area of its expertise. The reporter would have been in Boston Bar because it has a hotel and is the closest town, and also because all routes into Lytton were closed for safety reasons.

• Similarly, while some Lytton residents did wind up in Boston Bar, “by July 3” us inaccurate. The town burned to the ground in less than an hour. Nobody stayed in Lytton for days. That did happen to some extent west of town but that area is Lytton First Nation, not the Village of Lytton. These are different communities with different governments on different sides of the Fraser River.

• Also: Most evacuees went north because the highway south to Boston Bar was closed. I think the editor who wrote “by” based this on the date of the source, but this wording is misleading even if technically accurate.
• The reason the source fails verification is that it doesn’t say that firefighters were battling fires in Boston Bar, only that the local reporter was in Boston Bar. And the article is inaccurate as to the points mentioned above Elinruby (talk) 13:32, 24 November 2021 (UTC)

I flagged it rather than removing it at the time, because it is a relatively minor point, there was a lot of confusion, and I thought I possibly could be wrong. I was not. I was less than a kilometer from that Boston Bar fire and followed these events with extreme attention. I realize that this amounts to what we call original research, so let me add that all statements I am making in this post *can* be sourced through wildfirebc.ca and other primary records, if somebody insists, but this does not seem a good use of time, especially when the most likely people to be interested in this article would be nearby residents who do know that these statements are true Elinruby (talk) 13:32, 24 November 2021 (UTC)

References

Nlaka'pamux

“As of July 2021, the Nlaka'pamux Nation Tribal Council, a tribal association consisting of five First Nations, including the Lytton First Nation, was being affected by the fire. Although affiliated with the association, the Lytton First Nation directly provides and administers all services to its members”

This edit by Allthecows makes it sound like the tribal association itself was affected. I don’t claim expertise but I am fairly certain that Lytton First Nation is one of several First Nations with bands living on reserve communities outside the municipal limits of the village. I think the Nlaka'pamux is analogous to Great Britain, which includes Scotland, Northern Ireland and Wales in addition to England, and whose members have varying degrees of autonomy when it comes to governance. If someone comes through here and knows for a fact that I have misunderstood this, please do speak up and correct me. The sentence spelling out the relationship is rather awkward, but I guess someone was trying to understand why the Nlaka'pamux chairman was a spokesman for Lytton. (?) However it seems to me that the better construction is to say that First Nations reserves were evacuated (vs affected, more specific). The explanation of the Nlaka'pamux should imho follow the quote from the tribal chairman so people understand why we are quoting him. Elinruby (talk) 06:54, 24 July 2021 (UTC)

Hi Elinruby! The wording there was quite awkward to revise. As far as I amt aware, the Lytton are a member nation, but I'm not certain why they were mentioned specifically. I think it would be a good idea to list the affects the fire has had on specific bands rather than just the Nlaka'pamux. You are correct with your belief that the Lytton FN live near the village. I'd recommend looking at this map for First Nations around the area here: https://www.bcafn.ca/first-nations-bc/interactive-map. Plus EmergencyInfoBC can show reserve borders and evac-orders/alerts too (although for some reason a lot of the bands haven't issued any. Thanks! Allthecows (talk) 19:30, 24 July 2021 (UTC)

One more thing, as off July 24, the Nooaitch and Cook's Ferry bands have had an evacuation alert and evacuation order respectively applied to some of their reserves (due to the fire). AFAIK they are not apart of the Nlaka'pamux, As for orders an alerts for Nlaka'pamux members, only Lytton FN , Nicomen and Skuppah have issued evacuation alerts and orders. That doesn't mean other reserves of other bands have left or been affected though. Allthecows (talk) 19:42, 24 July 2021 (UTC)

@Allthecows: Ok, you sound like you are familiar with the area and the events. I understand what you are saying about the wording. I think somebody tried to sort out Lytton FN vs Village of Lytton vs IR24 or whatever. I agree that it is confusing to explain bands vs First Nations vs tribal associations. I do not know whether the Nooaitch or Cook’s Ferry bands are Nlaka'pamux. I do think we do need to explain Nlaka’pamux if we are going to quote the chairman of that tribal association, but I also am not sure we need a long explanation either, at least not in this article about the fire. Open to suggestions. What will was trying for was to suggest that all the reserves were affected to some degree. Let’s start with: is that even correct? Elinruby (talk) 21:37, 24 July 2021 (UTC)

Update for inclusion

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/village-lytton-civil-lawsuit-1.6884710

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/canada/article-wildfires-lytton-bc-rebuild/ Elinruby (talk) 04:39, 27 June 2023 (UTC)

https://www.vancouversun.com/news/local-news/class-action-suit-alleging-lytton-fire-sparked-by-passing-train-opens-in-court/wcm/bd6f3427-5845-490b-895f-6d8ca4fd0059/amp/ Elinruby (talk) 05:37, 27 June 2023 (UTC)