Talk:M3 half-track

Picture

Picture shown is an M-16, the M-3 did not have the quad 50 mount. --141.157.157.106 00:21, 18 Jun 2005 (UTC)

T12 Issue

The T12 GMC was the pilot vehicle for the M3 GMC. The only difference between T12s and production M3s is the purpose built gun shield on the M3 replacing the sparse gun shield from the M2A3 carraige that the gun had been on previously that had been fitted to the T12. Dunno anything about a T12 HMC, but this is the T12 GMC.

Well, the T12 designation is unnecessary in the variant list since it got a "proper" designation once adopted. GraemeLeggett 10:00, 8 November 2005 (UTC)

I honestly don't think so. If its a term that people might stumble across its nice to have it listed there so people know what it is. Thatguy96 8:20, 8 November 2005 (UTC)

Current service

Should it be mentioned that the M3 is still in service in Israel? 204.152.235.217 (talk) 21:59, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

I was under the impression that the IDF had dispensed with the last of their halftracks by the end of the 1980s, even passing some of the remaining units to groups like the South Lebanon Army. Do you have a source for their continued usage? -- Thatguy96 (talk) 22:16, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

Also, according to the page on the Bolivian military, they apparently still use them. SpudHawg948 (talk) 16:49, 31 October 2008 (UTC)

They are still used in Colombia by the Military in Perreia District as checkpoint security. They can also be seen during protests or near the stadiums during a match as riot control vehicles.-Renteria

At least as recently as the mid-90s there was still something like 8 - 12 operators in South America and Africa (although for a lot of them, Janes had little caveats like "unknown how many remain serviceable".) You can confirm Colombia [1], and add Lebanon [2], Senegal [3], Peru [4] and Dominican Republic [5] as countries still operating them today. (Possibly also Rwanda [6], although given the ambiguous listing and their closer relationship to France, that might be meant to be Panhard M3.) There were also a lot of M2s and M9s sold off/given away after the war, and still in service in odd little spots around the world. -- 202.63.39.58 (talk) 02:49, 23 January 2011 (UTC)

Squad size

A WW2 US Army Armored Infantry rifle squad had 12 men. This total *includes* the driver, who was expected to act as another rifleman when dismounted and absolutely was a squad member. The M3 was also used to carry light machinegun and mortar squads also, but none of those squads had more than 12 men. So the M3 did indeed have 13 seats, but even at full strength no squad needed more than 12 seats. Regards, DMorpheus2 (talk) 14:34, 25 January 2013 (UTC)

Lead Photo is clearly an M2

Folks, the lead photo in this article is definitely an M2, not an M3. I will edit. DMorpheus2 (talk) 18:25, 5 August 2016 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:M3 half-track/GA3. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: AustralianRupert (talk · contribs) 02:59, 28 July 2019 (UTC)

I will review this article following its nomination for GA. I will post some initial comments/observations shortly. Regards, AustralianRupert (talk) 02:59, 28 July 2019 (UTC)

Initial comments/observations: G'day, I can see that a lot of hard work has been put into this article, which is fantastic to see. There is a lot of great information and overall the article is detailed and well referenced; however, I think there are a few things to work through at this stage. I have taken an initial run through the article, and have some initial comments/observations, which I will place below here. If these can be worked on/addressed, I will come back and take another look at the article. Thanks for your efforts so far. Regards, AustralianRupert (talk) 03:19, 28 July 2019 (UTC)

• the lead probably needs expansion to cover the service history of the vehicle in other conflicts after World War II
  • I have added something myself in this regard -- please check you are happy with this. AustralianRupert (talk) 10:00, 11 August 2019 (UTC)
• this needs a citation: 6-cylinder gasoline engine with a compression ratio of 6:3:1, giving the vehicle a power-to-weight ratio of 15.8 hp/ton.

Could not find source for compression ratio, removed for now. The p/w ratio and infobox hp number seems to be based on information from "The encyclopedia of weapons of World War II", while the text states a hp cited to "American Tanks of World War II". Which one should I change the others to?

Either is probably fine, IMO. If they have contrasting figures, it would be best to contrast this in the text by citing both. Regards, AustralianRupert (talk) 23:57, 3 August 2019 (UTC)

• The M3 half-track is -- "is" or "was" (tense - is it currently in use, if not the article should probably use past tense)?
• M3 can carry its... -- same as above. The article seems to mix past and present tense

Changed to past tense

• the infobox mentions service in many wars (for instance the Chinese Civil War, the Korean War, First Indochina War etc), but the service history does not cover these
• Should International Harvester be added to the infobox as a manufacturer?

No, as they manufactured the M5 half-track, which was designed from the M3, but different enough to have it's own designation.

In that case, I'd suggest probably not mentioning them in the lead. Probably could be replaced by White Motor Company and/or Diamond T, which are mentioned in the body and infobox, but not in the lead. AustralianRupert (talk) 23:57, 3 August 2019 (UTC)

Adjusted with my copy edit -- please check you are happy with this change and adjust as you see fit. Regards, AustralianRupert (talk) 10:00, 11 August 2019 (UTC)

• while steering is manual -- perhaps mention the steering wheel here, given it is mentioned in the infobox?

Removed the parameter from the infobox, as it is not there in any other half track articles.

Ok, makes sense. AustralianRupert (talk) 23:57, 3 August 2019 (UTC)

• there are many operators listed, but only few of them are covered by the Service history section
• the lead mentions Soviet and British Commonwealth service, but the Service history section doesn't really mention this
• Although originally intended for armored infantry regiments... --> perhaps make it clear this refers to US service. For instance, "Although originally intended for US armored infantry regiments..."
  • This has been dealt with. AustralianRupert (talk) 10:00, 11 August 2019 (UTC)
• in the north African and western fronts --> "in North Africa and on the Western Front"?
  • This has been dealt with. AustralianRupert (talk) 10:00, 11 August 2019 (UTC)
• is there an access date for citation # 45 (country-data)?
  • This has been dealt with. AustralianRupert (talk) 10:00, 11 August 2019 (UTC)
• remove the first mention of "country-data.com" in the citation -- it doesn't need to be mentioned twice; probably best to mention Library of Congress as the publisher if that is correct
  • This has been dealt with. AustralianRupert (talk) 10:00, 11 August 2019 (UTC)
• is there an ISBN, ISSN or OCLC that could be added for the Foss citations? These can usually be found on worldcat.org
  • This has been dealt with. AustralianRupert (talk) 10:00, 11 August 2019 (UTC)
• are there page numbers for the Foss citations?
• is the wwiiafterwwii.wordpress.com citation a reliable source? Can you tell me anything about its authors, publishers, sources etc? AustralianRupert (talk) 10:00, 11 August 2019 (UTC)

I think this a quite reliable source. I have read many of their articles and they are well informed (as far as I can judge). However, this website is formally a blog with an anonymous author.--Le Petit Chat (talk) 20:12, 11 August 2019 (UTC)

G'day, thanks, do they cite their sources at all? If not, given that the author is unknown, and we don't know its editorial policy/publishing provenance etc, it is probably best to replace it with something else. AustralianRupert (talk) 09:17, 12 August 2019 (UTC)

• citation 1 probably could use the short citation format like citation # 2
  • I have adjusted this now. AustralianRupert (talk) 10:00, 11 August 2019 (UTC)
• Dominican Republic – Dominican Army[42] 16 still in service in 1994.[28] -- probably needs some punctuation before "16"
  • This has been dealt with. AustralianRupert (talk) 10:00, 11 August 2019 (UTC)
• El Salvador – Salvadoran Army 5 in service in 1988.[45] -- same as above, before "5"
  • This has been dealt with. AustralianRupert (talk) 10:00, 11 August 2019 (UTC)
• White Motor Company is overlinked in the Design section
  • I have removed this now as part of my copy edit. AustralianRupert (talk) 10:00, 11 August 2019 (UTC)
• the conversions in the infobox seem to be slightly different to the text. For instance compare, "9.07 tons (20,800 lb)" in the body v. "20,000 lb (9.07 metric tons)" in the infobox. The length and width conversions also seem slightly different between the body and the infobox
  • I have adjusted this so that the infobox matches the body of the article -- please check you are happy with this. AustralianRupert (talk) 10:00, 11 August 2019 (UTC)
• 150 miles (240 km) before refueling v. "Operational range: 200 mi (320 km)" -- seems inconsistent
• the speed appears to be mentioned in the infobox, but not in the body of the article
• armored 'pulpit mount' for -- I think the MOS prefers double quote marks, but there probably isn't a need for the quote marks anyway
  • This has been dealt with as part of my copy edit. AustralianRupert (talk) 10:00, 11 August 2019 (UTC)
• incredibly minor point (and one that is no doubt not part of the GA criteria), but can the hyphenation of the ISBNs be made consistent. For instance, compare "9781782000761" with "0-7607-1022-8."
  • This has been dealt with now. AustralianRupert (talk) 10:00, 11 August 2019 (UTC)
• [7]: appears to be a deadlink -- is there a web archive version that can be linked to, in order to fix this issue?
  • I have found an archiveurl for this myself. AustralianRupert (talk) 10:00, 11 August 2019 (UTC)
• "File:M3 75mm Bougainville, Solomon Islands November 1943.jpg": the source listed on the image description page is simply US Army -- is there a website or a book that could be listed to confirm this?
• (81 mm)(97 rounds), designed -- probably needs a space between the two sets of brackets
  • I have adjusted this with my copy edit. AustralianRupert (talk) 10:00, 11 August 2019 (UTC)
• anti-tank missile teams, their cannons... -- suggest replacing the comma with a semi-colon here
  • I have adjusted this with my copy edit. AustralianRupert (talk) 10:00, 11 August 2019 (UTC)
  • @WelpThatWorked: G'day, are you in a position to address or respond to the above comments? Regards, AustralianRupert (talk) 05:08, 3 August 2019 (UTC)

Sorry, I have been busy counseling at a summer camp over the week, working on it now. WelpThatWorked (talk) 21:52, 3 August 2019 (UTC)

Too easy, thanks for making a start. Regards, AustralianRupert (talk) 23:57, 3 August 2019 (UTC)

G'day, I have done some copy editing to help deal with a few of the above comments. Unfortunately, though, I cannot help with some of the content/coverage-related issues listed above. Regards, AustralianRupert (talk) 10:00, 11 August 2019 (UTC)

G'day, again, please be advised that I intend to close this review as unsuccessful this weekend (next 24 to 48 hours), unless the remaining issues (related mainly to coverage and referencing) can be dealt with. Regards, AustralianRupert (talk) 10:50, 16 August 2019 (UTC)

Closed now. Per the below, the main issue is the coverage. There is also a need to rectify the citation needed tag. Please feel free to renominate once the identified issues have been dealt with. Thank you for your efforts so far. Regards, AustralianRupert (talk) 10:47, 18 August 2019 (UTC)

Criteria

1. Well written: Y

a. the prose is clear and concise, and the spelling and grammar are correct; and

b. it complies with the manual of style guidelines for lead sections, layout, words to watch, fiction, and list incorporation.

2. Verifiable with no original research: N

a. it contains a list of all references (sources of information), presented in accordance with the layout style guideline;

b. all in-line citations are from reliable sources, including those for direct quotations, statistics, published opinion, counter-intuitive or controversial statements that are challenged or likely to be challenged, and contentious material relating to living persons—science-based articles should follow the scientific citation guidelines;

c. it contains no original research; and

d. it contains no copyright violations nor plagiarism.

3. Broad in its coverage: N

a. it addresses the main aspects of the topic; and

b. it stays focused on the topic without going into unnecessary detail (see summary style).

4. Neutral: it represents viewpoints fairly and without editorial bias, giving due weight to each. Y

5. Stable: it does not change significantly from day to day because of an ongoing edit war or content dispute Y

6. Illustrated, if possible, by media such as images, video, or audio: Y

a. media are tagged with their copyright statuses, and valid fair use rationales are provided for non-free content; and

b. media are relevant to the topic, and have suitable captions.

External comment

@AustralianRupert: Hello, I have contributed to this page so I can't review this GAN. However, this page has a big problem with the third criterium Broad in its coverage. There is nothing about post-war service. As said in the infobox, the M3 saw combat after the war in many conflicts (Lebanon, France in Algeria, Zaire, Israel, Lebanon) and nothing is explained in the text. I believe this article needs to be expanded to non-US users. @WelpThatWorked: if you need help to find some references, I can help you. Write first the new section titles and general ideas and then I will add more details. But I think I do not have enough references.--Le Petit Chat (talk) 20:04, 11 August 2019 (UTC)

G'day, thanks, I agree, per my comments above -- "there are many operators listed, but only few of them are covered by the Service history section " and "the infobox mentions service in many wars (for instance the Chinese Civil War, the Korean War, First Indochina War etc), but the service history does not cover these". I will leave the review open a bit longer to see if these can be addressed; however, these may be insurmountable in this review. I will look to close it as unsuccessful maybe next weekend if they haven't. Regards, AustralianRupert (talk) 09:17, 12 August 2019 (UTC)

@Le Petit Chat: I have closed the review now as unsuccessful. If you have access to references that can help expand coverage, and you are keen to work on the article, please do so. Thank you for your time. Regards, AustralianRupert (talk) 10:47, 18 August 2019 (UTC)

Name of the article

Can someone please rename this article and the M5 half-track to M3 half-track car and M5 half-track car