Talk:MTV Video Music Award for Best Group

Peer review (copied comments here before closing request today)

Submitting this list for peer review to determine whether my improvements have brought it up to FL standards or not, and to get suggestions on what can be done to make it a potential FLC if possible.

Thanks, Carlobunnie (talk) 00:33, 5 November 2020 (UTC)

Comments from Aza24

Sorry that you haven't received any comments thus far! I'll take a close look sometime in the next few days. Best - Aza24 (talk) 08:27, 24 December 2020 (UTC)

• There is some good formatting at Michael Jackson Video Vanguard Award which may be helpful.
• "was first given out" sounds a little to casual for an encyclopedia; try something different, such as "an award/honor first presented"
• The formatting of the first sentence seems less than ideal, the semi colon is separating the "in 1984" with the winner of that year in an odd way, and ideally we want to link to the 1984 MTV Video Music Awards if we're going to bring it up. It's also not really properly explain what the award is for. Perhaps the first sentence should be who is presenting the award and what it is for, with the second sentence lining to the first ceremony and explaining who won it then. A link to music video would be nice as well, in could be included in this proposed new first sentence.
• What was the name before "Best Group Video"? Or is it now "Best Group" (isn't that something completely different?) the chronology is confusing here, especially since the article is titled "MTV Video Music Award for Best Group Video" even though the infobox says it is formerly called the "Best Group Video". This should be explained far more clearly

Reply: The award was orig called Best Group Video since its introduction in 1984 up to the 2006 show. It was renamed Best Group in 2007 when the MTV awards underwent a revamp (they changed up the awards presented+their names). The chronology is correct but I probably should have written "from 1984–2006" in the lead to make it clearer. I was unsure at the time if renaming the article to Best Group would be okay so I just updated the infobox alone until I got clear direction. Should I just rename the page then? -- Carlobunnie (talk) 22:55, 6 January 2021 (UTC)

I'm honestly unsure. I would say it makes sense to, though it may be worth it to do a formal RM to see what others say. Aza24 (talk) 01:33, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

• "eleven years later in 2019" sounds redundant

Fixed: edited to just "in 2019" -- Carlobunnie (talk) 22:55, 6 January 2021 (UTC)

• "biggest winner " – perhaps "most frequent"? "Biggest" seems ambiguous

Fixed: changed to "most awarded artist..." -- Carlobunnie (talk) 22:55, 6 January 2021 (UTC)

• there could surely be more images next to the table

Reply: the MJVVA page has all its images contained in the table itself. I like how it looks so I'll convert this one the same way and that should take care of the lack of images. -- Carlobunnie (talk) 22:55, 6 January 2021 (UTC)

I inserted one image into the table as a test but idk how I feel about it. I also realized that the MJVVA table lists the winners alone but I like showing who the other nominees were for each year so I might not convert it after all. For photos, should I add for all winners or just select ones? -- Carlobunnie (talk) 00:30, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

Looking at other award list FLs (such as Academy Award for Best Actor) it seems that deciding the inclusion of which artists as photos is somewhat random. In this respect, you can probably pick whom ever you want, as long as they don't start to reach below the table. Aza24 (talk) 01:33, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

• the lead seems a bit short still, perhaps look at similar lists to see if any other information could be included. Perhaps something should be said about 2020 and 2019 including far more nominees than the rest?
• Due to the (if I understand it correctly) significant name change, this should be mentioned in parentheses in the first sentence, and perhaps the transition should be clearer in the table. To do the latter, I would recommend something like what I've done in my work-in-progress List of Medieval composers, where a column span is used to separate entries better.

Reply: I did the colspan demarcation earlier to indicate the name change. Is there a particular preference for bg color in the styling for tables of this nature? I did BGV in gold and BG in pale blue as a test but idk which to stick with. -- Carlobunnie (talk) 02:04, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

I haven't seen one, usually because I don't come across award lists with a change of name! I think the blue looks fine, as it seems to fit with the blue linking of articles already. A brighter color like gold may be a bit distracting. Aza24 (talk) 00:13, 17 January 2021 (UTC)

• While these are some relatively large changes that need to be made, I'm confident that (given the work thus far) you're more than capable of addressing these things Carlobunnie. I think after these changes it will be around FL standard, and additional comments at FLC would assure that. I'll be happy to do a source review at FLC and will watch this page if you have any questions about my comments or anything. Best - Aza24 (talk) 23:04, 1 January 2021 (UTC)

@Aza24: my apologies for only now replying to you. I've been busy with a few other projects so I didn't get a chance to fully check all my notifs until now. Thank you so much for taking the time to review the page (it's been so long since I listed it that I actually forgot that I did). I'll go through your comments and make the necessary adjustments as best as I can once I'm done with the current articles I'm working on. And I'll def reach out with any questions. Again tysm!!! -- Carlobunnie (talk) 00:22, 4 January 2021 (UTC)

Sounds good, and no rush at all of course. If the PR is closed by someone else due to being listed too long, just come to my talk page. Best - Aza24 (talk) 22:43, 5 January 2021 (UTC) Carlobunnie (talk) 00:22, 5 February 2021 (UTC)

Requested move 23 March 2021

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Move to MTV Video Music Award for Best Group. There will be a redirect from the previous name of the award, of course. - jc37 03:00, 26 April 2021 (UTC)

---

MTV Video Music Award for Best Group Video → MTV Video Music Award for Best Group – The award was renamed in 2017 so the page name should reflect that. Secondary sources have all referred to it by the BG title since then. Carlobunnie (talk) 06:04, 23 March 2021 (UTC)

This is a contested technical request (permalink). Anthony Appleyard (talk) 14:53, 23 March 2021 (UTC)

• @Carlobunnie and Buidhe: queried move request Anthony Appleyard (talk) 14:56, 23 March 2021 (UTC)
• Oppose, I am seeing most sources on Google News use the final "video", even post-2017. (t · c) buidhe 13:20, 23 March 2021 (UTC)

Comment: buidhe articles that cover throwbacks, the show's history/the history of artists who won the award under its orig name etc. refer to it as BGV yes because that name is applicable to the context of those pieces BUT, there are just as many sources referring to it as MTV VMA for BG since 2017. The existing page title could be changed to a redirect, the opening sentence would be reworded to state the award's new name (and that it was formerly known as BGV), and the existing information in the lead rearranged to better clarify the history surrounding both incarnations of the award to readers. Just like how the infobox says mtv vma for bg and has the "formerly" parameter in it. That was a tentative change when I was actively updating the page before I decided to go ahead and req the page move yesterday (tho if the move doesn't go through then I'll remove it ofc). Per the advice of the editor who began peer reviewing it for me, I even updated the table to clearly demarcate when the name change went into effect. -- Carlobunnie (talk) 18:24, 23 March 2021 (UTC)

,

• Support per Carlobunnie. Sean Stephens (talk) 23:58, 29 March 2021 (UTC)
• Support per nom. The longer history may include "Video", but after dropping it, the RS published since have done so as well, making this a good move per WP:NAMECHANGES. -2pou (talk) 16:16, 3 April 2021 (UTC)
• Support Seems like they did change the award name according to MTV Video Music Awards#Award categories. If that's what the award is called now, the title should reflect it, not use an outdated one. Some1 (talk) 21:28, 24 April 2021 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.