Talk:Magdalena Hinterdobler/GA1

GA Review

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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Nominator: Gerda Arendt (talk · contribs) 14:15, 1 June 2024 (UTC)

Reviewer: MyCatIsAChonk (talk · contribs) 18:43, 2 June 2024 (UTC)

Rate	Attribute	Review Comment
1. Well-written:
	1a. the prose is clear, concise, and understandable to an appropriately broad audience; spelling and grammar are correct.	She studied voice University of Music and Theatre Munich together with several former members of the Tölzer Knabenchor, who influenced the class towards team spirit - what's "who influenced the class towards team spirit" mean? In recitals, she has performed with pianist Gerold Huber - would make more sense to move this up to when you mention Huber as her choru director's son; something like "conducted by Gerold Huber, the father of the pianist Gerold Huber, the latter going on to perform in recital with her." in a collaboration of the academy and the Musikhochschule conducted by Michael Hofstetter and recorded live - in collaboration with what academy? In 2016 she performed as "the scheming fairy Zemina" - quote is not attributed "the Prenzlauer Berg bourgeois idyll with her colorful, sensual soprano as an erotic elemental force" ("M. H. füllt als erotische Urgewalt das Prenzlauer Berg-Spießeridyll mit ihrem farbenreichen, sinnlichen Sopran") - is the german translation needed? Is there a particular reason that none of the reviewers are named in this article? but hoped for more nuanced phrasing - explain in non music terms She performed the role of Chrysothemis... [the reviewer added]: "This will be a great role for her!" - did the reviewer see it before it premiered? Otherwise, how come it's past tense? She performed a recital at the Oper Frankfurt of Hugo Wolf's Italienisches Liederbuch on 28 May 2024, with tenor and pianist Thomas Guggeis. - Is Guggeis really a tenor? His article mentions nothing of singing, and I've only ever seen him conduct Oper Frankfurt- this surprises me
	1b. it complies with the Manual of Style guidelines for lead sections, layout, words to watch, fiction, and list incorporation.	Complies with MoS standards for lead and layout
2. Verifiable with no original research, as shown by a source spot-check:
	2a. it contains a list of all references (sources of information), presented in accordance with the layout style guideline.	Refs in proper "References" list
	2b. reliable sources are cited inline. All content that could reasonably be challenged, except for plot summaries and that which summarizes cited content elsewhere in the article, must be cited no later than the end of the paragraph (or line if the content is not in prose).	I question the reliability of Online Musik Magazin and livemusicnow-muenchen.de and classicalsource.com
	2c. it contains no original research.	AGF for German sources- the few english sources I randomly checked looked good, so no concerns here
	2d. it contains no copyright violations or plagiarism.	Earwig shows no copyvios
3. Broad in its coverage:
	3a. it addresses the main aspects of the topic.	There's no personal life here! Who is she? Any amusing anecdotes from colleagues?\ If no personal details are available, then so be it- coverage of her career is thorough and complete
	3b. it stays focused on the topic without going into unnecessary detail (see summary style).
	4. Neutral: it represents viewpoints fairly and without editorial bias, giving due weight to each.
	5. Stable: it does not change significantly from day to day because of an ongoing edit war or content dispute.
6. Illustrated, if possible, by media such as images, video, or audio:
	6a. media are tagged with their copyright statuses, and valid non-free use rationales are provided for non-free content.	Photos of opera houses are properly CC licensed
	6b. media are relevant to the topic, and have suitable captions.	Relevant to sections and captioned properly
	7. Overall assessment.

Gerda Arendt, I'll do the rest once the above comments are addressed. Also, why no fair use picture of her in the infobox? MyCatIsAChonk (talk) (not me) (also not me) (still no) 19:21, 2 June 2024 (UTC)

Thank you for taking up the review! Brief answers before details: I didn't see personal life in the available sources, nor an available picture that could be used. We can add images freely after a subject has died, but for living people, they argue that one could take one. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:19, 3 June 2024 (UTC)

2 Sources

The article is the work of many, who brought in many sources. You question three of those.

• Online Musik Magazin - I found that site consistently detailed in reviewing, and they get the original images from Oper Frankfurt. It is used for one quote, for Eva, where we have many, so it could be moved to External links (dropping the quotation) if you think that's safer.
• livemusicnow-muenchen.de - I added the organisation's full name, Yehudi Menuhin Live Music, a nonprofit organisation making young musicians play in places such as hospitals, of whom she was one. I found that source by searching for a reference for her birth place, and found it useful for more detail from her early life. I don't believe that any of that is contentious, - what do you you think?
• classicalsource.com - I found that source by searching for an item acceptable to the DYK crew wanting something snappy. Sure enough, that line was chosen. It's one quotation of several for Grete, - if we drop that, we'd have to make a note on the talk page ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:50, 3 June 2024 (UTC)

All good reasons- I think the review quotes are ok, and the only one naming personal details is Yehudi Menuhin Live Music, which looks good to me. MyCatIsAChonk (talk) (not me) (also not me) (still no) 23:08, 3 June 2024 (UTC)

1 Prose

• "Tölzer Knabenchor": she noted - see interview - that the colleagues, coming from the famous choir, brought an attitude of team spirit to the class (as opposed to soloists in competition), - how could that be said better but still concise?
  • Alas, I can't read German so I can't extract the best meaning here... I'll trust this now, however it still reads somewhat oddly MyCatIsAChonk (talk) (not me) (also not me) (still no)
    • I tried to say that she saw it like this, please check. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:43, 4 June 2024 (UTC)
• Gerold Huber - that is one of the names I think everybody knows (as The pianist for Christian Gerhaher) as one of the leading lied accompanists of our time, - but I'am probably wrong ;) - If we mention more at this early point, it would be something about his general notability, not only that she would later work with him. But what?
  • I still think it'll be helpful, and the "In recitals, she has.." sentence would no longer be needed MyCatIsAChonk (talk) (not me) (also not me) (still no)
    • I tried what I understood. However, that leaves open at what time she performed with him which - to my surprise - was rather early. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:38, 4 June 2024 (UTC)
• what academy? - The one just mentioned, but we could repeat the full name (Bayerische Theaterakademie August Everding), or at least say Academy. What do you prefer?
  • I failed to notice that that was the name of an academy- I saw "theatre" and assumed performance ensemble. Disregard this comment MyCatIsAChonk (talk) (not me) (also not me) (still no)
• "the scheming fairy Zemina", quote not attributed - yes, and I think I'd rather drop "the scheming fairy" than add to the 3 words that some critic from some paper used them to characterise the role, not even her portrayal of it.
  • I went ahead and cut it; having a description of the role would be odd since the other roles have no descriptions MyCatIsAChonk (talk) (not me) (also not me) (still no)
    • It's just I knew all other roles, but not this one ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:32, 4 June 2024 (UTC)
• "the Prenzlauer Berg bourgeois idyll with her colorful, sensual soprano as an erotic elemental force" ("M. H. füllt als erotische Urgewalt das Prenzlauer Berg-Spießeridyll mit ihrem farbenreichen, sinnlichen Sopran") - is the german translation needed? - It is not a translation, but the original, - it's the English which is a rather free translation (different word order), therefore I thought easy access without a click to the ref or a footnote would be helpful for those who read German.
  • Well, I highly doubt that those who primarily speak german use the english wikipedia- however, I see your point. For this, they can be cut, since it's not an essential part of the text and the translation gets the point across MyCatIsAChonk (talk) (not me) (also not me) (still no)
• Is there a particular reason that none of the reviewers are named in this article? - Jan Brachmann is named, but all others seem (to me) not notable enough. I regularly mention those with an article, and those I believe deserve one (like Brachmann).
  • Makes sense, no concerns then MyCatIsAChonk (talk) (not me) (also not me) (still no)
• "but hoped for more nuanced phrasing" explain in non music terms - Sigh. I didn't want to omit that to not censor criticism, but really wouldn't know how to say it differently. How would you say in English the weight you give to syllables and words when you speak? And to do more or less of that?
  • A wl does the job- I added it to the section MyCatIsAChonk (talk) (not me) (also not me) (still no)
• "This will be a great role for her!" past tense - I understand the reviewer as saying that this may become one of her signature roles, stress on "great", after he heard her debut in it.
  • That should be clarified in the text, especially since it's a translation so you have flexibility with what vocabulary you use MyCatIsAChonk (talk) (not me) (also not me) (still no)
    • What do you think of cutting it altogether? It's one person's view, and we will know perhaps in 10 years if he was right. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:32, 4 June 2024 (UTC)

  Agreed- cut MyCatIsAChonk (talk) (not me) (also not me) (still no) 20:42, 4 June 2024 (UTC)

• the missing tenor - blushing (that I failed to look up and enter his name, twice), and added - he's scheduled for the Met, so should get an article --Gerda Arendt (talk) 09:29, 3 June 2024 (UTC)
  • @Gerda Arendt: Replies above MyCatIsAChonk (talk) (not me) (also not me) (still no) 23:31, 3 June 2024 (UTC)
    • Thank you, also for the edits. I worked on an actor practically all day. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:32, 4 June 2024 (UTC)
      • All good now- excellent work! MyCatIsAChonk (talk) (not me) (also not me) (still no) 20:46, 4 June 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.