Talk:Maghrebi mint tea

Bias

Why does "Spread from Morocco" get to stay despite the fact that no sources are given? The history of its origin is complex and little is known about it, some speculate that it originated in Morocco, that is already mentioned in the history section (where it belongs), stating it as a fact in the intro is extremely biased (As is most of the content on this page: photos of mint tea outside of Morocco have been reported and got taken down, the edit war is strong on this one) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Slothtysloth (talk • contribs) 21:45, 4 February 2022 (UTC)

With regard to the image that I removed: it has been nominated for deletion (as copyvio).

You are right about the attributable claim. I have removed it from the into (as it's not a fact) and attributed the claim to its author.

I have also reverted Simohiro's edits (As they clearly misrepresented the source and deleted the sourced part). M.Bitton (talk) 00:32, 5 February 2022 (UTC)

Title

Hey @إيان

As you reverted the title change I made without providing a specific reason, I would like to initiate a discussion with you regarding the title and why you believe we should have an exclusive title such as "Maghrebi" which translates to Moroccan mint tea in Arabic. Various sources indicate that mint tea is a popular drink in all Northern African regions. Therefore, I would appreciate it if you could provide clarification and engage in a debate on this matter.

Best regards. Riad Salih (talk) 19:15, 17 June 2023 (UTC)

Riad Salih, such a move would require WP:Consensus built through discussion. Per WP:RM#CM, you can request a move by starting a discussion here on this talk page.

Per WP:Requested moves:

To request a single page move, click on the "New section" (or "Add topic") tab of the talk page of the article you want moved, without adding a new subject/header, inserting this code:

:{{subst:requested move|New name|reason=Place here your rationale for the proposed page name change, ideally referring to applicable naming convention policies and guidelines, and providing evidence in support where appropriate. If your reasoning includes search engine results, please prioritize searches limited to reliable sources (e.g. books, news, scholarly papers) over other web results. You don't need to add your signature at the end, as this template will do so automatically.}}
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Please keep in mind that Wikipedia has a policy of WP:No original research, and you would need to demonstrate that the name you suggest is a WP:Common name in WP:Reliable sources إيان (talk) 19:47, 17 June 2023 (UTC)

Thank you. The term "Maghrebi mint tea" is not used anywhere in any source, and it is not a neutral name. Therefore, demonstrating this is not difficult. Riad Salih (talk) 19:52, 17 June 2023 (UTC)

Moroccan teaware

@M.Bitton: Since my edit got reverted as an advert, I would like to set few things straight: (1) I am OK with the reversal here. The only reason I have added it is due to the fact that I have already written the text for the Tea set and IMHO it was useful here (there are no mentions of tea implements beyond the glasses in the current text. (2) The reason why I wrote the text for Tea set is equally simple: another editor contributed there a similar text using a commercial site as a source. Like you, I do not like commercial element here but, instead of deleting contributions, prefer to replace the links I do not like with normal WP:RS, I rewrote the text in Tea set#Morocco. (3) I do not know anything about Moroccan tea (beyond the facts I learned while writing this text) and am not involved in any way, shape, or form with anything related to this tea. (4) I very definitely do not know the thesis' author, her school, advisors, etc. This is the only source I have found that discusses the Moroccan tea habits in the glorious detail. Викидим (talk) 23:57, 14 July 2023 (UTC)

However, I very much object to your removal of my text in the Tea set, but will discuss it there. Викидим (talk) 00:01, 15 July 2023 (UTC)

I replied on the Tea set article talk page. M.Bitton (talk) 00:16, 15 July 2023 (UTC)

George Van Driem

Honestly, I didn't check the author at first before undoing my edit, but George's book on the history of tea is well-researched and worth citing. I later found out he's a professor of Historical Linguistics, a field that intersects history and linguistics. MoroccanTeaEnjoyer (talk) 01:32, 20 January 2024 (UTC)

This isn't just about the reliability of the source, it's also about the fact that most, if not all of what you added is already covered in the article in greater details: for example, "Morocco valued tea over Brazilian coffee" is misleading since coffee was unknown in Morocco, unlike its neighbours (which is the reason why the Moroccan latched onto tea). It's also worth noting that this Chinese green tea (adding mint to it is done in the Middle East too) is consumed in many countries and not just Morocco which is already given UNDUE weight in the article, while the Tuaregs who have done more for its spread in Africa than anyone else are barely mentioned. M.Bitton (talk) 17:04, 25 January 2024 (UTC)

Thanks, M.Bitton, for your reply. I understand your point now. I too have noticed that some details in my edit were already covered in the article, and some were unrelated. However, George adds further information in his book, mentioning, for instance, that the habit of drinking a hot infusion of fresh mint was reportedly established in Morocco before the introduction of green tea. He points out that during Moulay Ismail's reign (1672-1727), tea existed in Morocco, with the Sultan receiving tea and porcelain cups from the Dutch. As a historical linguist, George explains that the word "it-tai" or "atay" is a Dutch loanword from "thee" (contrary to the common belief that it originated from French). Additionally, he notes that the Moroccan style of drinking tea was already well established in the royal court during the time of William Lempriere (during the reign of Moulay Yazid Ben Mohammed), whose accounts describe the Moroccan tradition of preparing and drinking mint tea at that time. MoroccanTeaEnjoyer (talk) 19:14, 25 January 2024 (UTC)