Talk:Main Southern railway line, New South Wales

Infobox structure

The use of a template to include the image, dates, gauge, etc is incorrect. An Infobox in the main article is the correct method and included additional information. The template should only be used for the route diagram, per others in [[Category:Templates for railway lines of Australia]]. Dbromage [Talk] 06:57, 8 February 2013 (UTC)

and no doubt you made those changes to all those without any discussion. Bidgee (talk) 14:40, 8 February 2013 (UTC)

The Wikipedia community encourages users to be bold when updating the encyclopedia. If you think these changes are incorrect or controversial, please state why. The edits are entirely within Wikipedia policies. Dbromage [Talk] 03:44, 11 February 2013 (UTC)

You should know by now that when something is disputed that you need a consensus for such a bold change. Bidgee (talk) 05:40, 11 February 2013 (UTC)

Wikipedia encourages bold updating. You are the only one disputing the changes but you have not said what it is you are actually disputing. So tell us, which part of the additional referenced material in the article and template do you claim to be incorrect (and thus why the referenced third party sources are incorrect), why it is controversial to add additional referenced material and why it is inappropriate to use the correct Infobox for this article? You have not assumed good faith and you have now removed material referenced by reliable sources. Dbromage [Talk] 06:29, 11 February 2013 (UTC)

Sigh! You've failed to follow WP:BOLD and WP:AGF yourself. You're doing huge changes without any discussion with anyone. Bidgee (talk) 06:40, 11 February 2013 (UTC)

You are the only one disputing the changes but you have not said what it is you are actually disputing. I will ask you again. Which part of the additional material referenced by reliable sources in the article and template do you claim to be incorrect, why it is controversial to add additional referenced material and why it is inappropriate to use the correct Infobox for this article? Dbromage [Talk] 07:08, 11 February 2013 (UTC)

• I am uninvolved in this so I hope I can provide an objective view. The changes seem to be very informative, accurate, well sourced, add missing information, correct errors and put a badly formatted template into the correct format. I cannot see why this would be disputed. Bidgee has, despite numerous requests, failed to state exactly what content is in dispute and what the objection is beyond "it wasn't discussed". ShipFan (Talk) 11:27, 11 February 2013 (UTC)

Proposed changes

Due to one person claiming a content dispute for uncontroversial content referenced by reliable sources, but not actually saying what was in dispute and continually reverting, I will delay correction of errors and omissions from this article until a third party reviews the proposed changes. The proposed changes are in User:Dbromage/sandbox/Main Southern railway line, New South Wales and User:Dbromage/sandbox/Template Main Southern railway line, New South Wales

Article:

• Adds {{Infobox rail line}}. Current usage of {{Main South line}} to convey this information is incorrect.
• Adds information to {{Infobox rail line}} which is not in the currently template.
• Adds information about the original John Whitton alignment and references information about duplication and deviations.
• There are other factual errors in the text I have not got around to correcting yet, e.g. claims the Bombala line did not have major freight traffic (it was one of the busiest lines in the state during the Snowy Mountains Scheme).

Template:

• Adopts correct use of rail icons per Wikipedia:Route diagram template and shows the route diagram only
• Header in green to match the CityRail/Countrylink route, per other NSW railway line templates
• Adds the missing John Whitton alignments and shows deviations, including a new deviation (Redbank Tunnel) completed in 2012
• Adds several missing stations
• Adds several missing features, including two major rivers
• Corrects some incorrectly named features
• Adds distances taken from the Australian Rail Track Corporation curve and gradient book
• Adds official names of junctions taken from the Australian Rail Track Corporation curve and gradient book
• Adds missing branch lines and connecting tramways referenced in other articles
• Adds accessibility information taken from Countrylink

Note that both must be changed as the template is referenced inline in the article. Changing one and not the other will either break or duplicate information.

I welcome third party comments on the proposed changes. Dbromage [Talk] 07:45, 11 February 2013 (UTC)

• Comment - generally, I'm inclined to think that when one person adds something and another expresses concern about the addition (for whatever reason, or even no reason at all) it should prompt a talk page discussion. Beyond the WP:EW, hopefully everyone can move forward now that we're here. I am keen to understand what the objections might be and am also keen to understand what WP:MOS or project-specific style work prompted the changes in the first place (beyond those that seek to simply update things). Stalwart111 10:26, 11 February 2013 (UTC)
• Comment - I've looked through the history of I'm at a loss to understand what possible objection there could be. All the proposed changes seem sensible and are properly sourced. I have looked at related articles and they have similar issues with formatting and style. I would hate to see further improvements like this delayed or even obstructed by unspecified and unnecessary disputes. The only actual complaint is "it hasn't been formatted that way in the past". So what? If you look at Wikipedia:Route diagram template the current formatting is wrong. It should not be necessary to go to these lengths to make improvements. ShipFan (Talk) 11:13, 11 February 2013 (UTC) Note: User has been blocked as a sockpuppet of Dbromage.--v/r - TP 22:05, 11 February 2013 (UTC)
• Comment: the proposed changes look reasonable to me.--Grahame (talk) 14:15, 11 February 2013 (UTC)
• Comment: For comparison sake, the various articles on German railway lines have adopted the 'infobox with line diagram' format - example: Nuremberg–Würzburg_railway. While Japan and France both use an infobox with the separate line diagram in an expand panel - example Tokyo Waterfront Area Rapid Transit Rinkai Line and Paris–Lille railway. As for the proposed changes, I think the altered layout works better than the previous formatting. Wongm (talk) 22:53, 11 February 2013 (UTC)

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