Talk:Malachim (Hasidic group)

Joke?

Is this a joke? --Bear and Dragon 13:50, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

...I don't get it. --Yodamace1 15:04, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

Why do you think this is a joke? Yossiea ^(talk) 16:32, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

It sounds quite absurd and I have never heard of it. The sources are also not that impressive. --Bear and Dragon 17:06, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

Daniel575, your never hearing about it is irrelevant. It is quite well known in the US. Most people who know a bit of American Jewish history have heard about the Malachim. Yossiea ^(talk) 17:56, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

You've never heard of it because it was a largely isolated historical incident which did not result in the culmination of any modern movements which seem to have a future and Rabbi Berel Wein doesn't overview such things. But if Harvard University Press doesn't impress you, what you want? --Yodamace1 22:48, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

It was also mentioned in "American Judaism" by Jonathan Sarna. Yossiea ^(talk) 01:02, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

I don't particularly care what Berel Wein says. And I have simply never heard of this group. How numerous are they? --Bear and Dragon 07:45, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

That's fine, but what's not impressive about the sources? They're tiny, almost dead in fact. How many malachim are there? Good question, I don't know...my guess (not hypothesis) would be less than a hundred. --Yodamace1 15:31, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

Their synagogue in Brooklyn Nesivos Olam located at 187 Hewes St. in the Williamsburg section of Brooklyn, NY is now led by Rabbi Meyer Weberman - can someone find a reliable source to add this information? Itzik18 (talk) 19:08, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

Rabbi Meyer Weberman is sick, but retains his status as the honorary rabbi. Right now the synagogue is headless, though the rabbi's son, Rabbi Mordechai Wolf (William) Weberman, a known Neturei Karta activist, serves as an unofficial leader. A leading representative of a smaller group in Monsey is lead by Rabbi Chaim Flohr. An academic source: A Threat from Within: A History of Jewish Opposition to Zionism by Yakov Rabkin, Zed Books, 2006 —The preceding comment was added by Laplandian (talk • contribs • page moves • block user • block log)

Satmar

I removed the Satmar bit because it is too vague, unreferenced, violates WP:OR and is just not notable enough even if true to be included. Yossiea ^(talk) 16:54, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

What would be notable is that many former "Malachim" are now Satmar Hasidim, if we could find a reference to that Itzik18 (talk) 19:10, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

Dynasty?

Why is this group called a dynasty, which this encyclopedia defines as "a succession of rulers who belong to the same family for generations." There was no dynasty. I suggest that the title be changed to "Malachim (Hasidic group)". —Preceding unsigned comment added by Yehoishophot Oliver (talk • contribs) 20:51, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

Dynasty vs "group"

See similar discussion and situations at Talk:Breslov (Hasidic dynasty)#Dynasty vs "group" and Talk:Strashelye (Hasidic dynasty)#Dynasty vs "group". namely "A recent move was made by User Yehoishophot Oliver (talk · contribs) to downgrade this group from "dynasty" to "group". The one making these changes did so from a pro-Chabad POV that views Breslov as their rivals. The name "Dynasty" is a generic name for all the Hasidic "groups" on WP since for a long time now, it has been standard procedure not to use the label "sect" because it is demeaning, likewise "group" sounds common-place and not far off from "sect". A "dynasty" denotes a "group" too, even if the seat of power is not held by a direct family member, the "monarchical" and dynastic nature of such Hasidic movements stay intact through each generation that rules in the name of both living and dead rebbes. Such is even the case now in Chabad where the "dynasty" continues even though there has been no succession and no single rabbi has been appointed to the "throne" in the present, yet the movement bases itself on the authority of its last deceased leader. Category:Hasidic dynasties makes clear that this naming convention has been the universally accepted naming convention on WP for many years and changes should not be made without seeking very wide and extensive input. Thank you, IZAK (talk) 09:52, 21 September 2010 (UTC)"

• NOTE: Please keep all discussions centralized at Talk:Breslov (Hasidic dynasty)#Dynasty vs "group". IZAK (talk) 03:51, 27 September 2010 (UTC)

Since then, Breslov (Hasidic dynasty) has been renamed Breslov (Hasidic group). So I'm renaming it here too. -- -- -- 23:35, 26 May 2011 (UTC)

Satanism

Sorry, this page is absurd. I agree with the User "Bear and Dragon" above. MAL'ACHIM, Malachim, Moloch = Baal. So these people worship the devil? Do Jews worship the devil? This is BS! Someone explain their name (Malachim) please! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.153.221.249 (talk) 06:24, 13 January 2011 (UTC)

While Satan and devil connote bad angels, Malach may connote a good angel, and may also refer to a human who is considered to be angelic. (See Malachi 2:7). So these people call their (deceased) rabbi "the Malach", and themselves "Malachim" (meaning: followers (not:worshipers) of the Malach). -- -- -- 00:57, 27 May 2011 (UTC)

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