Talk:Manga artist

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 24 January 2021 and 21 May 2021. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Wacheli.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 03:15, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

How to order names?

Should we order this and if so how, by Japanese letter order or English? -- EmperorBMA / ブリイアン 05:04, 17 Jan 2004 (UTC)

Japanese letter order is only suitable for Japanese reading people, which are not the only ones to read Manga.

Besides, the Japanese name is not always available when the first lines of a stub are written.

Lvr 15:33, 27 Apr 2004 (UTC)

Request for Japanese

Could someone who speaks Japanese please add Japanese names to the (still very stubby) new articles Keiji Nakazawa and Barefoot Gen? (Done, by User:Sh) Thank you. —Hob←Talk 04:08, 2004 Aug 24 (UTC)

Alphabetize names?

Should the surnames be alphabetized, in the Latin order? --KJ 10:28, 15 December 2005 (UTC)

Yes, and they already are. --nihon 01:32, 16 December 2005 (UTC)

division

in any other language wikipedia,mangaka and list of mangaka are divided.I would divide.--Forestfarmer 19:31, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

Page needs serious help

This page really needs to be redone... This is kind of sad. I wish there was a Mangaka project. --Hitsuji Kinno 04:00, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

Mangaka as the manga itself.

Sometimes in manga, usually in the foreword section, the artist will refer to his artwork as his "Mangaka". I think we should make the following edition:

"Mangaka is sometimes (not usually) used to refer to the authors work, when the author is speaking about his/her manga."

Or something of that sort. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.86.84.250 (talk) 16:37, 6 May 2007 (UTC).

Can you come up with a citation? If not don't add it until you can. And a reliable source, like a magazine, etc.--Hitsuji Kinno (talk) 21:19, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

English anyone?

Is mangaka in any English dictionaries? What's up with most of the Japan related articles here using a foreign word when referring to someone who draws comics? Most normal people have no idea what it means, and having to click on it just to read the definition is a major inconvenience.

Southsailor (talk) 07:35, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

[A word in, edgewise? Any good unabridged "universal"-ish English dictionary should have lots under "manga" and lots more under all the multitudinous meanings of "-ka", both hyphenated and not.] Unfree (talk) 00:31, 26 December 2009 (UTC)

I agree. It's already happened with the widespread use of "Seiyuu" in articles here, yet these aren't acceptable words in the English lexicon. Samurai is a well-accepted loan word, "Mangaka" isn't even close to being one. Using this term all over wikipedia as if it were perfectly normal to do so is just bad practice. AMHR285 (talk) 14:16, 1 October 2008 (UTC)

[Document that.] Unfree (talk) 00:31, 26 December 2009 (UTC)

I'll change every "mangaka" and "seiyuu" to "manga writer and illustrator" and "japanese voice actor" after you justify changing "manga" to "japanese styled comics" and "anime" to "japanese styled cartoons". I wouldn't argue that they're different because they're not. the words are mangaka and seiyuu. Dictionaries will have it, eventually; but, for now, (especially since were on wikipedia) you should try the only up to date dictionary (wiktionary) for those words. I found them. 86.45.91.71 (talk) 00:51, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

[My only objection is to how you spelt :) "we're" the wrong way. Good for you!] Unfree (talk) 00:31, 26 December 2009 (UTC)

There is a difference between these two sets of terms. Anime and manga have found their way into common English usage and are understood by most English readers. So these terms do not need to be explained when used in an article. Mangaka and seiyū, on the other hand, have not found their way into common English usage, are not understood by most English readers, and the terms should be explained or defined whenever they are used in an article per WP:JARGON. --Farix (Talk) 21:34, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

[Not to mention that we rarely, if ever, call our English cartoons and animations "English manga" and "English anime". It's the Japanese ones we usually mean, eh?] Unfree (talk) 00:31, 26 December 2009 (UTC)

The "anime" and "manga" comparison was for those who wished for translations. If you want explanations there is a problem there too; these are words not terms: they don't need explanations, they need definitions. To put definitions wherever they are mentioned would be unsuitable. Don't be lazy. Just because it's a new loanword, don't act like you're being cheated into taking an extra couple of seconds from your wiki-time to learn a new word. It's good that you learned something new and exotic, don't you think? 86.40.178.252 (talk) 03:06, 3 June 2009 (UTC)

[I hate to interlope just to say, "Right"!, but I'm doing it.] Unfree (talk) 00:31, 26 December 2009 (UTC)

What on earth are you talking about? Articles should be written to be understood, not to force the learning and adoption of foreign words into the English lexicon. On what authority do you say mangaka and seiyuu are “new loanwords”? There is a distinction between manga and Western comics, and between anime and Western cartoons; not so between their respective artists and voice actors. —98.203.11.165 (talk) 04:06, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

[I'm with you, too.] Unfree (talk) 00:31, 26 December 2009 (UTC)

Don't tell me I stand alone against all of you! I'm all for learning a new word, and if it's a bit stylish, that's great. It's not that I don't get what you're aiming at, such as trying to learn a bit about India or yoga without being introduced into all sorts of Hindi and Sanskrit words and names I couldn't possibly tackle, much use in everyday life, but I'm glad I know "panache", for instance, and a smattering of good words in many languages. Lots of them are Greek, Latin, or French, and you know them too, like "arena", "stadium", "theatre", "lucid", "vacuum", "station", "hotel", "zenith", etc. A foreign word or two won't bite you! Unfree (talk) 00:05, 26 December 2009 (UTC) What if nobody ever borrowed "nude" from the French? Why, it's my favorite thing about French ladies, at least those who demonstrate, especially for me, in private! Why, I whip out my "peints de huile" (maybe "oil paints", who cares?) "toute de suite" (or "lickety-split" -- and I do mean both the prefix and the suffix, a connotation lost in French translation, which is a terrible disappointment, even if I revert to English to say so, because innuendo, an Italian word, is rarely lost on my favorite French ladies. I can't wait to meet one, and practice my French "techniques", to borrow a word!) Unfree (talk) 00:18, 26 December 2009 (UTC)

• For the same reason the "Seiyu" article was renamed "Voice acting in Japan", I request that this article be moved to something more appropriate, such as "Manga artists" or "Cartoonists in Japan". The reasoning for this request can be found in the Talk page in the Voice acting in Japan article; specifically that many other Japanese topics that do NOT cover Japanese Pop Culture have titles like "Baseball in Japan", "Religion in Japan", etc, and are NOT titled by their Japanese name. -- 66.92.0.62 (talk) 11:57, 16 January 2011 (UTC)

• • Not to mention that "mangaka" has NOT entered into the English language like other Japanese words have, like "manga", "anime", "sushi", "samurai" and "tsunami", which is why THOSE articles are known by their Japanese name. Furthermore, there is the gaijin article, which is NOT about the ACTUAL foreigners in Japan (that is covered in Demography_of_Japan#Foreign_residents), but about the word and history of "gaijin". -- 66.92.0.62 (talk) 12:03, 16 January 2011 (UTC)

Suffixes? In Japanese?

To call something affixed to the end of a Japanese word a "suffix" is to demonstrate silly ignorance. There are both proper English and Japanese words for all of them. The commonest (a word I coin myself, and spellcheck doesn't complain, though spellcheck drives it up the wall!) are the "particles", one of which is -ka, turning the whole precedent sentence into a question, so since MS Windows gives me trouble with filenames with question marks in them, I just use "ka" as if it were a question mark, tagging it onto something, like "Who's he ka", making a very excellent filename. But other suffixes have names for their types, which somebody or other really ought to look into, perhaps gaining a Japanese pen-pal in the bargain. What kind of suffix is -ka, as it's used here, and the wording is no good, something like "used in referring to" or "implying" such and such. Just give its meaning! They're all very simple concepts, once you "get" them. Such as types of people. -za means something, -ya means a few things (making "a shop which sells it", I think, and other things), -ka means things, -teki turns nouns into adjectives, or vice versa, etc. There are -maki, -yaki, -udon, for food preparation techniques, others for counting things, and so on. Find out what kind of suffix this -ka is, and you'll go a long way towards understanding and explaining it. -san, -sha, -kun, -sensei, -shi, maybe -bun and -ko, and so on ad infinitum, are all kinds of people! There's a name for that sort of suffix. I think the "mora" (meaning "syllable", roughly) "ka" is the most common in Japanese, or maybe it's "shi". They each must have lots of meanings, even in similar contexts. One thing "mangaka" might mean is "manga?", the question! Unfree (talk) 23:58, 25 December 2009 (UTC)

Possible rename

In keeping with WP:USEENGLISH a rename proposal is very likely. But what should it be renamed to, Manga artist or Manga creator? Or should the whole thing be merged into Comics artist or Comic book creator? —Farix (t | c) 03:36, 27 August 2011 (UTC)

I'd vote for Manga artist (which actually currently redirects to Mangaka) KudouUsagi (talk) 16:08, 3 September 2011 (UTC)

At first impression, I would agree with that. However, we must remember that there are mangaka who do not draw any art, but simply write the stories. So calling them "manga artist" would not be very fitting. This is why I'm favoring Manga creator as a broader article name that would include both artists and writers. Then you can have Mangaka, Manga artist, and Manga author as redirects. —Farix (t | c) 12:58, 4 September 2011 (UTC)

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the proposal was no consensus. --BDD (talk) 05:02, 7 October 2012 (UTC) (non-admin closure)

Mangaka → Manga creator – as previously discussed and to keep in accordance with WP:USEENGLISH. Unlike anime and manga, mangaka has not penetrated into the English language to be considered in common use. As such using the English term would make it far easier for a general reader to find and understand the title of the article. —Farix (t | c) 22:23, 5 September 2012 (UTC)

• Yeah, but the phrase “manga creator” is even rarer. How about “manga artist”?[1] — A. di M.  18:21, 6 September 2012 (UTC)

  The problem with that term is that it excludes manga authors who do not illustrate their works. —Farix (t | c) 22:18, 6 September 2012 (UTC)

  Well... if so, that should be explained in the lead. Otherwise a casual reader reader List of manga artists, going to manga artist and noticing it redirects to mangaka may fail to realize they're not exact synonyms. — A. di M.  08:32, 7 September 2012 (UTC)

  manga artist would be fine so long as other editors don't exclude manga authors. However, I know that some individuals are going to argue that manga artists and manga authors are not the same. That's why I suggested a name which will cover both without leaving room for dispute. After all, this article is about all of those who create manga, not just those who draw it or those who write it. —Farix (t | c) 23:28, 10 September 2012 (UTC)

• Support - Agree with the concerns by Farix. Mangaka has not penetrated to be considered common use and an English term would be more appropriate in this case. Lord Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 01:29, 7 September 2012 (UTC)
• Oppose; Farix has not provided any evidence that "mangaka has not penetrated into the English language", and our naming conventions prefer that we do not make up a term that is not already in wide use. Powers ^T 02:15, 7 September 2012 (UTC)

  You can't prove a negative. You have to show that it has become a common word in English. But A. di M.'s link shows that mangaka is not in common use and that at least manga artist is in much greater use by English language sources. —Farix (t | c) 23:28, 10 September 2012 (UTC)

FWIW I don't think WP:BURDEN applies to LtPowers here--you are the one who wants to change the status quo. And while you can't prove a negative, you can show evidence of absence in the English language (by a lack of Google hits, for example). On Google I see 7.3 million hits for "mangaka" and about 10% that number for "manga creator." Dekimasuよ! 05:30, 13 September 2012 (UTC)

WP:USEENGLISH is the overriding principle here. Why use a foreign language term that isn't in common use in the English language when we have a subtable English language term that is more easily understood by English language readers? But regardless of which equivalent English term is used, this article should not be named "Mangaka". —Farix (t | c) 10:55, 13 September 2012 (UTC)

• Inclined to oppose. The question raised here about whether an English term would use "artist" or "author" seems to point to the superiority of using the unambiguous terms "mangaka" and "manga creator"--but "manga creator" is a neologism. Dekimasuよ! 05:23, 13 September 2012 (UTC)
• Oppose I don't get it. A simple google search on Mangaka throws up 7.4 million hits including this book. I know google searches are not the be all and end all but the term certainly appears to have penetrated into the English language. Manga creator does throw up more hits but all the top ones are for a specific game with the same name. --regentspark (comment) 16:19, 14 September 2012 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article title and word usage in other articles

I've looked at the talk pages of the articles suggested above and while this naming issue has been raised in different places before, no consensus appears to have been reached elsewhere either. Not in MOS not in Use English and not on this Mangaka article talk page. I'm sympathetic to those who have indicated that the use of jargon is discouraged on Wikipedia and I agree that using -still uncommon- phrases or words from other languages creates the necessity for additional clarification in the text of articles. It looks like someone is now unilaterally changing all entries for mangaka in existing articles. In text and particularly in links and redirects to this article. Replacing all entries for Mangaka with manga artist. It seems to be done to influence redirect statistics in favour of change. Was consensus reached on the preferable terminology? If so, what is it? Verso.Sciolto (talk) 19:17, 4 December 2013 (UTC)

It is probably better if I add some links for the comment I left on December 4, 2014. As of today, January 25, 2014, no change has been made to the name of this article. It is still called Mangaka.

MOS:FOREIGN redirects here. In this section of the Manual of Style it says, in part, "Foreign terms" [...] "Foreign words should be used sparingly." underneath it says: "No common usage in English" with the explanation stating: "Use italics for phrases in other languages and for isolated foreign words that are not current in English." A search for the word Mangaka inside the manual of Style currently gives the following result: link. The following in an excerpt from the guidance given there regarding writing about People in the section of the same name: "For articles on directors, mangaka, seiyū (voice actors), etc., follow Wikipedia:WikiProject Biography." This indicates to me that there is no guidance in the current Manual of Style that prohibits the use of the word Mangaka. A search in the Talk Page archives for the Manual of Style leads to the following previous discussions: Terminology, Person info box, Romanizing おう and おお, Naming order in relation to works of Western origin, Notability is not a style issue. None of those entries offer conclusive guidance on the usage of the term Mangaka but the final entry in the Terminology discussion is reflected in the text of the Manual of Style itself.

WP:ENGLISH redirects here to an article called: Wikipedia:Naming conventions (use English). which appears to be an article offering guidance regarding the name or title to choose for articles.

I once again request feedback regarding the usage of the word Mangaka throughout Wikipedia articles and regarding the change or retention of the title for this particular article. Given the example guidelines cited this seems to me the proper place to discuss this matter and reach a consensus prior to making any further changes. Verso.Sciolto (talk) 11:35, 25 January 2014 (UTC)

An editor has suggested separating this discussion on the usage of the word Mangaka from this talk page and to discuss it in stead on the Manga and Anime project talk page - but since input on the title of this article and a potential move was previously suggested there to be held here, per this Move request made by the Farix and since the topic concerns editors from Wikipedia as a whole and not just the Anime and Manga project, and since the issues seem entwined to me, I've once again come to the conclusion that it is better to address the topics of usage and the potential name change of the Mangaka article together and to do so here. I've invited the editor who made the suggestion over here to express his point of view on this matter. Verso.Sciolto (talk) 17:55, 25 January 2014 (UTC)

Visual arts

Mangaka is clearly an occupation, and {{WikiProject Occupations|class=Start|importance=mid}} is now added, but should this article have {{WikiProject Visual arts|class=Start}}, or individual Mangka articles have that WikiProject line? --Dthomsen8 (talk) 03:33, 20 November 2017 (UTC)

The article on manga themselves is covered by Wikipedia:WikiProject Comics, a daughter project to WikiProject Visual arts. Dimadick (talk) 21:23, 20 November 2017 (UTC)

New section for the page?

Hello, I am considering adding a new section to the page titled "Becoming a Mangaka". I know it is already addressed a little in the lead, but I feel that it should have its own section as interest in being a mangaka has risen. Here is the link to the sandbox containing the draft feel free to give it a read and share your thoughts on the idea.Wacheli (talk) 03:53, 7 May 2021 (UTC)

• A section for that sounds good to me. Your draft is alright. The only things I would say is italicize One Punch Man and make sure to keep the date format consistent when adding it. Link20XX (talk) 04:10, 7 May 2021 (UTC)

Thanks for the feedback! Wacheli (talk) 00:12, 8 May 2021 (UTC)

Requested move 1 August 2021

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved. (closed by non-admin page mover) Jack Frost (talk) 03:05, 8 August 2021 (UTC)

---

Mangaka → Manga artist – As per WP:CRITERIA, the following are what to take into account when deciding how to name an article:

• Recognizability: I think the name "manga artist" is far easier to understand to someone who knows nothing about this than the specific term "Mangaka"
• Naturalness: The last line explicitly states "Such a title usually conveys what the subject is actually called in English". Manga artist is the English term where Mangaka is the romanized version of the Japanese name.
• Precision: N/A
• Conciseness: N/A
• Consistency: The category for manga artists/mangaka is titled Category:Manga artists and most places where "Mangaka" is linked pipe it to show "Manga artist".

Due to the above, the article should be moved to Manga artist. Link20XX (talk) 01:19, 1 August 2021 (UTC)

• Support – "Manga artist" is less ambiguous to people unfamiliar with the glossary of anime and manga. Also, while anime and manga refer to a specific kind of animation and comic art, respectively, "mangaka" is a term that can easily be translated to English. - Xexerss (talk) 02:03, 1 August 2021 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Title Still a Bit Off

Normally a version of a page that specifies the Japanese side of things goes like this: "Voice acting" to "Voice acting in Japan", "Education" to "Education in Japan", et cetera. So logically..."Cartoonist" to "Cartoonists in Japan". It's not a separate thing, but rather, a page to talk about what it's like to be a cartoonist in Japan. I know all the weaboos I've met loathe when "manga" are called "comics", but that's what they are. "Manga artist" works, but it's intentionally ignoring the word we already have for comic artists: "cartoonist".Linkdude20002001 (talk) 00:32, 17 December 2021 (UTC)