Talk:Manon des Sources (1986 film)

The old film

What about the old 1952 Manon des Sources that Pagnol directed? --Burbster 00:18, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

My sentiments entirely. If 'Manon des Sources' is based on a 'two-part novel from 1966', how exactly does one explain the mysterious existence without any mention WHATSOEVER within Wikipedia of the movie "Manon Des Sources", (p)1953, Written and Directed by Marcel Pagnol ???  :) http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0044883/

Sometimes there is a value to being able to prove assertions made. Either the 1986 remake of Manon des Sources (if we assume that the film from 1953 really does exist) is based on some novel from 1966 or it is based on the original film. Proof ?

External links

• Manon des sources at IMDb

Aethandor (talk) 19:54, 29 February 2008 (UTC)aethandor

Try reading the book (in French). The paperback cover says the earlier movie was first. The book was an expansion on the early movie and the second movie was made from the book. The Manon des Sources paperback has a picture on the cover of the Manon of the first film (Pagnol's wife). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 205.175.225.22 (talk) 19:45, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

The War

I have removed the link from the mentioning of "the war" to the first world war, as it clearly wasn't this war being referred to. The film Jean de fleurette takes place shortly after the first world war when cesar is an old man and Jean arrives with a wife and a young daughter. Jean cannot really be less than 30 at this point although the film doesn't clearly state his age.

The war must have taken place in the late 19th century and so could have been the Sino-Franco war or the Franco-Dahomey war, but the film is vague on this issue. (Elephant53 13:05, 26 July 2007 (UTC))

WikiProject class rating

This article was automatically assessed because at least one article was rated and this bot brought all the other ratings up to at least that level. BetacommandBot 07:22, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

Title - French vs English

By my reading of Wikipedia:Naming conventions (films) the title should be Manon des Sources (film), which is currently a redirect to Manon of the Spring (film). The French title is about three times more common than the English title, which seems to have been used for the US release. Thoughts? Stu ^{’Bout ye!} 11:46, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

Many of the American and British movies are described with French titles in French Wikipedia. But why must not you describe French movies with English titles in English Wikipedia? I think that it is reverse discrimination.

• http://www.amazon.com/Manon-Spring-Yves-Montand/dp/B000053VBP
• http://www.amazon.co.uk/Manon-Spring-Sources-Yves-Montand/dp/B000CCR67Q
• http://www.amazon.ca/Manon-Spring-Widescreen-Claude-Berri/dp/B000053VBP
• http://www.amazon.com/Manon-Spring-Sources-NON-USA-FORMAT/dp/B000A3WEB0 -- Llorcs^(why?) 20:51, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

Llorcs, I suggest you read Wikipedia:Naming_conventions (films)#Foreign-language_films more carefully and if you disagree with it, suggest some improvements at Wikipedia talk:Naming_conventions (films). This is not the place. Cop 663 (talk) 02:38, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

I moved this back to Manon des Sources (film) this morning. The French title is much more common. And having a French title for Jean de Florette and and English title for this was dumb. Stu ^{’Bout ye!} 09:21, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

And someone has now moved it back to the English title. The French title is three times more common than the English title, so as per Wikipedia:Naming conventions (films), the title should be Manon des Sources (film). IMDB also uses the French title. Stu ^{’Bout ye!} 10:49, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

The IMDb argument is moot because IMDb always displays the original title, regardless of how common or uncommon the translation is. Girolamo Savonarola (talk) 18:13, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

According to WP:NC(F), we should use Manon des Sources. It's released under the French title in Britain and an English title in North America, so we can't call one more 'correct' than the other. However, the google counts provided by Stubacca show that "Manon des Sources" is by far the commoner title in use. The basic principle is to be useful to our readers by using the title that they're more likely to be familiar with. In this case, the French title is more likely to be familiar to our readers. Cop 663 (talk) 19:47, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

DVD is sold at the English title even in Britain. Jean de Florette is another film, therefore it have nothing to do with the titles of this film. Google isn't reliable as source because Manon des Sources makes hits as subtitle. It is a mere search engine. Eachwiped (talk) 20:42, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

• This is not correct. It is currently a double bill Jean de Florette/Manon des Sources The BBC showed it under the original French title and the double bill came #55 in a BBC Top 100 films poll. --ROGER DAVIES ^talk 08:18, 1 December 2007 (UTC)

No, the Region 2 British DVD is called Manon des Sources.[1][2] Sure, Amazon also advertises the North American one, so you can order it from the States and have it shipped over to the UK if you felt the urge, but that's not the same thing. Also, the Australian Region 4 DVD uses the French title too.[3]

You can get around the subtitle problem by restricting the Google search to English language pages only, and by Googling for pages that contain the words "Manon des Sources" but do NOT contain the words "Manon of the Spring"[4] and vice versa [5]. If you do that, you get 88,000 hits for the French title and 41,000 hits for the English, so the French title is still twice as common. I realise Google searches are not the best evidence in the world, so if you can find a way of proving that the English title is more commonly used, please do so. Until you can do that, Google is the best we've got. Cop 663 (talk) 22:02, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

Wrong source used. "Google's search" include the book title.[6] In addition, the import version from U.S. is widely used in Britain.[7] Therefore, it's best known for the English title. Eachwiped (talk) 00:16, 28 November 2007 (UTC)

No, out of the first ten pages of results on Google, only two results are for the book. So that's 2%. The import version is available in the UK, but the French language title is much more common. Stu ^{’Bout ye!} 09:22, 28 November 2007 (UTC)

Exactly, and how do we know the import version is 'widely used' in Britain? It costs twice as much, not including the shipping, and you need a multi-region DVD player to see it... surely very few people in the UK own it. Cop 663 (talk) 13:20, 28 November 2007 (UTC)

I see no reason or valid argument to leave this any longer, so I'm moving it. Stu ^{’Bout ye!} 00:14, 1 December 2007 (UTC)

Agreed. Using the English title only applies if "a film was released under the same English title across the English-speaking world". This isn't the case. This was released and certificated by the BBFC in the UK as "Manon des Sources". In this situation, Wikipedia:Naming conventions (films)#Foreign-language films uses the formula: Manon des Sources released in North America as Manon of the Springs. --ROGER DAVIES ^talk 07:29, 1 December 2007 (UTC)

• Please also note that the New York Times refers to this film as "Manon des Sources".--ROGER DAVIES ^talk 07:48, 1 December 2007 (UTC)
• Classified as "Manon des Sources" in Australia, I see. --ROGER DAVIES ^talk 08:33, 1 December 2007 (UTC)

(outdent)I've just spent an hour or so fixing double redirects. Can we please keep this stable now as everyone's issues seem to have been resolved. --ROGER DAVIES ^talk 12:50, 1 December 2007 (UTC)

Everybody's wrong

Sorry to have to do this after all this fuss, but both sides of this debate are wrong. In French, unlike in English, only initial words and proper nouns are capitalised in book- and movie titles, just see: Wikipedia:Manual of Style (France & French-related)#Works of art. I'm afraid the title's gonna have to be changed again, to Manon des sources (film). Lampman (talk) 22:33, 29 July 2008 (UTC)

Au contraire, mon ami... il n'est pas simple: [8] Cop 663 (talk) 23:18, 29 July 2008 (UTC)

You're right, easy mistake to make, even the French get it wrong sometimes. Lampman (talk) 03:12, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

Her name is not Manon de Florette

Jean is called Jean de Florette (although I can't recall if he is ever called like that in the movie) because the villagers, especially le Papet and Ugolin know Jean's mother, Florette, and not Jean who is a stranger. So the title is the point of view of the villagers, they know him as Jean de Florette.

Now Manon's father died when she was young and her mother is gone away. So she grew up in and then virtually belongs to the hills and its spring, so she is called Manon des sources (Manon of the spring).

If you take the liberty to change her name, then it should be Manon de Jean. In most cultures in the world, people are linked to the parents, and not to the grandmother: my name is Patrick, son of Henry, blabla. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Staarkali (talk • contribs) 15:36, 4 October 2013 (UTC)

Her name is not Manon de Florette

Jean is called Jean de Florette (although I can't recall if he is ever called like that in the movie) because the villagers, especially le Papet and Ugolin know Jean's mother, Florette, and not Jean who is a stranger. So the title is the point of view of the villagers, they know him as Jean de Florette.

Now Manon's father died when she was young and her mother is gone away. So she grew up in and then virtually belongs to the hills and its spring, so she is called Manon des sources (Manon of the spring).

If you take the liberty to change her name, then it should be Manon de Jean. In most cultures in the world, people are linked to the parents, and not to the grandmother: my name is Patrick, son of Henry, blabla. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Staarkali (talk • contribs) 15:38, 4 October 2013 (UTC)