Talk:Manuel Díaz Gil

Requested move 7 November 2019

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: No consensus to move — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 21:29, 26 November 2019 (UTC) — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 21:29, 26 November 2019 (UTC)

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• Manuel Díaz Gil → Liz (footballer)
• Antonio Díaz Gil → Liz II (footballer)

– WP:COMMONNAME of both is Liz and Liz II respectively, confirmed by references and external links. Brothers who plays simultaneously. Ortizesp (talk) 16:50, 7 November 2019 (UTC)—Relisted. – Ammarpad (talk) 15:28, 15 November 2019 (UTC)

• Not convinced sounds like a nickname. In ictu oculi (talk) 10:46, 8 November 2019 (UTC)

As per Neodop below, every external link and references lists them as just Liz and Liz II, it was their players name. Similar to Kaká.--Ortizesp (talk) 18:51, 8 November 2019 (UTC)

Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related page moves. GiantSnowman 14:11, 8 November 2019 (UTC)

• Oppose as IIO has got this spot on, this is just a nickname. Pretty sure we've had similar discussions at WT:FOOTBALL before. GiantSnowman 14:13, 8 November 2019 (UTC)

I'd disagree, as every external link, and reference (including contemporary news articles which reference them as per Neodop below.--Ortizesp (talk) 18:51, 8 November 2019 (UTC)

• Comment They were overwhelmingly known as Liz and Liz II during their careers, which is reflected by both contemporary and retrospective newspaper articles and the names on their jerseys (1, 2, 3, 4, 5...). However, their full names would be preferable titles in my opinion since they are more natural and specific (there might be some female footballers known as Liz, for example). So, if anything, I would oppose, but for very different reasons. Neodop (talk) 16:21, 8 November 2019 (UTC)

I personally don't agree with that as there are not (afaik) any current footballers, female or otherwise that go momononymously as Liz other than these. If there were, i'd be more than happy to recommend them being named as Liz (Spanish footballer) and Liz II (Spanish footballer). It doesn't make sense for these pages to stay at their current titles if that's not what they are know as.--Ortizesp (talk) 18:51, 8 November 2019 (UTC)

• @Ammarpad: why has this been re-listed when there are 3 opposes and 0 supports, with no comments for 7 days? GiantSnowman 15:30, 15 November 2019 (UTC)

  @GiantSnowman: Beyond the raw numbers, I see something more important; an ongoing discussion that may benefit from a few more people joining in. The nomination is quite valid, such that one of the opposers actually agreed with the rationale, but then went to oppose for another reason (A reason which I am not able to judge its merit now, but want other people do that after relist).

  The rest of the 2 opposition comments, apart from being essentially one, are weak in substance (there's no policy that prohibits using nickname as article title; in fact we have a guideline that says opposite of that) and were both challenged with no response. So the numbers may look 3-0 for a closer who closes by numbers; but for anyone assessing the 'actual discussion' would definitely see what I just explained. That said, my relisting does not foreclose closing this discussion at any time from now; once RM discussion passed the initial seven days, it's eligible for close by an uninvolved editor at anytime irrespective of relisting status. – Ammarpad (talk) 16:11, 15 November 2019 (UTC)

• Comment, i want to note, every external link and internal reference list them as Liz and Liz II, including contemporary news articles from the 1950s, and their own eulogies decades later.--Ortizesp (talk) 22:11, 15 November 2019 (UTC)

They are nicknames in the same way that "Gazza" is. GiantSnowman 16:49, 18 November 2019 (UTC)

No, they are alternative names the same way Kaká is. Gazza was generally also known as Gascoigne, and didn't use Gazza on his shirt. Liz isn't a shortened form of either of these 2 brothers names, and was worn on the back of their jerseys. It's also how they are generally referred to in references and external links.--Ortizesp (talk) 18:33, 18 November 2019 (UTC)

• Support nominator has made a very compelling case for the target titles being the WP:COMMONNAMEs. Kaká provides some precedent for nicknames being allowable as titles. Colin M (talk) 21:16, 25 November 2019 (UTC)

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.