Talk:March of the Indonesian National Armed Forces

Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by SL93 (talk) 03:18, 10 March 2021 (UTC)

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• ... that the March of the Indonesian National Armed Forces was the first march composed by Addie MS? Source: #2 in the article

• Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Treaty of Guînes

Created by Jeromi Mikhael (talk). Self-nominated at 14:09, 23 January 2021 (UTC).

General: Article is new enough and long enough
New enough: Long enough:

Policy: Article is sourced, neutral, and free of copyright problems
Adequate sourcing: Neutral: Free of copyright violations, plagiarism, and close paraphrasing:

Hook eligibility:

• Cited: - Offline/paywalled citation accepted in good faith
• Interesting: - Sorry, I don't find anything particularly hook-y about this being Addie MS's first march. I don't think most readers will know who he is, and I'm not really sure what it means that this is his first march.

QPQ: Done.

Overall: Sources accepted in good faith since I can't read Indonesian and am not familiar enough with the media landscape there to judge their reliability. Earwig turns up no violation. Neutrality seems fine, although a glance from someone familiar with Indonesian politics couldn't hurt. The main issue is just interestingness, as we want a hook that'll actually entice people to click through to the article. Reading it over, the most interesting factoid to me was that the previous march was retired after being unused due to constant mocking by activists. I'd suggest adding a little more information on that and then using it as the basis for the hook. {{u|Sdkb}} ^talk 00:26, 28 January 2021 (UTC)

ALT1 ... that the March of the Indonesian National Armed Forces was adopted after the previous march was retired due to mocking and parodying by activists?

How does this sound? Narutolovehinata5 ^tccsdnew 05:15, 28 January 2021 (UTC)

Narutolovehinata5, the nominator is on a wikibreak (enforced by a self-requested block), so someone else may need to step up to get this on the main page. I'd like to see more contextual information on the page itself, since currently it doesn't say why or how the previous song was mocked, and if we're using this as a hook we should allow people who click through to learn that. {{u|Sdkb}} ^talk 01:58, 1 February 2021 (UTC)

I've left a message at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Indonesia asking for help. Narutolovehinata5 ^tccsdnew 02:19, 1 February 2021 (UTC)

@Narutolovehinata5 and Sdkb: Really sorry to both of you; I forgot that I have a DYK review left open! I've unblocked myself for this occasion, and I searched for another source. I found a really interesting article from Kompas (I could send it to you if you want) and added some more text and information from the source. It turns out that the retirement of the march due to mocking was just an allegation from the author and was not the official stance of the armed forces. I also found the sheet music of the song, but it is quite blurry and I can't see anything. Probably someone who is expert in music could recognize the musical symbols immediately. Regards, Jeromi Mikhael 05:07, 2 February 2021 (UTC)

Where does the nomination stand now? SL93 (talk) 08:39, 4 March 2021 (UTC)

Pinging @Narutolovehinata5:. jp×g 22:52, 7 March 2021 (UTC)

As Sdkb is the reviewer, I am deferring to them on whether or not the nomination is ready. Narutolovehinata5 ^tccsdnew 01:30, 8 March 2021 (UTC)

Oh, I see. My bad! @Skdb: is this one good to go? I am fine with approving a hook, if necessary (or writing a new one). jp×g 06:02, 8 March 2021 (UTC)

@JPxG: I didn't receive any ping since I'm Sdkb, not Skdb (a common mistake; potential solution was discussed a while back with Ovinus), but luckily I spotted this by chance. To follow up, it looks like the new wording of the article doesn't establish in wikivoice that the reason for retiring the anthem was the mocking, so we'd need to rephrase the blurb to reflect that it's a contested claim. {{u|Sdkb}} ^talk 07:40, 8 March 2021 (UTC)

How about this?

ALT1a ... that the March of the Indonesian National Armed Forces was adopted after the previous march fell into disuse due to mocking and parodying by activists?

This new wording doesn't mention that the mocking was the direct cause of the retirement, merely reflecting the article which states that the march became rarely used due to the aforementioned reasons. Other possible wordings could include replacing "fell into disuse" with "fell out of favor" or "became rarely used". Narutolovehinata5 ^tccsdnew 10:03, 8 March 2021 (UTC)

@Narutolovehinata5: Does the sourcing support "due to" for the fell out of favor? The sentence cites a source which I've Google translated here, but having trouble finding the quote. As a less assertive alternative, we could use "fell into disuse following mocking and parodying by activists". "Due to" would be better if we can establish it, though. Are there any Indonesian-speaking folks at DYK? {{u|Sdkb}} ^talk 01:09, 9 March 2021 (UTC)

@Sdkb: Would just using "following" regardless of the available sourcing work? AFAIK there aren't any other Indonesian editors on DYK at the moment and my efforts to contact a Bahasa speaker have come up empty before, so waiting longer to take a look could take too long. Plus, I assume the sourcing threshold for "following" is lower, and the "mocking by activists" angle is the important part anyway. Narutolovehinata5 ^tccsdnew 09:58, 9 March 2021 (UTC)

Yeah, this has been sitting for quite a while, so I guess we should get it out. So for ALT1b: ... that the March of the Indonesian National Armed Forces was adopted after the previous march fell into disuse following mocking and parodying by activists? {{u|Sdkb}} ^talk 19:29, 9 March 2021 (UTC)