Talk:Maria Giustina Turcotti

Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Bruxton (talk) 22:48, 13 May 2023 (UTC)

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1742 caricature of Maria Giustina Turcotti

• ... that according to one critic, Italian opera singer Maria Giustina Turcotti (pictured) "sang very well but was fat to the point of deformity"? Source: ANTON MARIA ZANETTI THE ELDER (1680-1767); Maria Giustina Turcotti dated 1742. Royal Collection Trust. Retrieved April 17, 2023.
  • Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Wie als een God wil leven

Created by 4meter4 (talk). Self-nominated at 22:19, 24 April 2023 (UTC). Post-promotion hook changes for this nom will be logged at Template talk:Did you know nominations/Maria Giustina Turcotti; consider watching this nomination, if it is successful, until the hook appears on the Main Page.

• I forgot to mention that I reviewed Template:Did you know nominations/Wie als een God wil leven.4meter4 (talk) 22:20, 24 April 2023 (UTC)

General: Article is new enough and long enough
New enough: Long enough:

Policy: Article is sourced, neutral, and free of copyright problems
Adequate sourcing: Neutral: Free of copyright violations, plagiarism, and close paraphrasing:

Hook: Hook has been verified by provided inline citation
Cited: Interesting:

Image: Image is freely licensed, used in the article, and clear at 100px.
Freely licensed: Used in article: Clear at 100px:

QPQ: Done.

Overall: @4meter4: Everything looks OK to me; no plagiarism on scan, assuming good faith on the offline sources. Minor suggestion: maybe clarify that the quote in the hook came from a pan of the show? Not clear from this whether the critic liked it or not. (May also improve sensitivity: this isn't a BLP but the hook is somewhat negative, so it may help to clarify that this is one critic reviewing one show, not someone delivering an authoritative verdict, if that makes sense.) Gnomingstuff (talk) 16:25, 25 April 2023 (UTC)

@Gnomingstuff I wouldn't say the quoted review came from a "pan" of Andrea Bernasconi's Il Bajazet. The image is a caricature from that production by the critic's brother (the well known artist Antonio Maria Zanetti), but the quote is from a serious review of the production published in the periodical Archivio Veneto by a well known 18th century Italian critic, editor and writer, Girolamo Zanetti. He himself would make a good wiki article. You can read more about him here. There's also another citation to the quote in the article which gives more detail about where this quote came from; but I used the Royal Collection website here because its online and easier to see for checking the hook fact. I kept it short here because explaining the hook properly made it too long, and it was 'hookier' to leave it short. Sadly, the existing academic scholarship on Turcotti focuses predominantly on negative criticism involving her weight, and it is the primary focus of practically every detailed biographical entry on the singer found in published RS. For example, her biography in The New Grove Dictionary of Music and Musicians does not mention a single opera she performed in but spends over half the article talking about her weight and quoting negative comments about her weight. In essence the hook is a reflection of the scholarship which has tended to focus in on the Zanetti caricature and the many negative critical reviews and/or comments made by colleagues and employers regarding her size during the latter part of her career. 4meter4 (talk) 16:51, 25 April 2023 (UTC)

• Got it -- I did get that impression from what I read of the biographies. As far as the quoted review, I was referring to the Royal Collection Trust calling it "scathing," but will take your word for it... Gnomingstuff (talk) 19:12, 26 April 2023 (UTC)

I tried to get an opinion on the hook and the "fat shaming". I see the long explanation and the reason for the hook. I have been hesitant to promote the hook until I heard from leeky, but they have been absent. I note that @BorgQueen: was equally apprehensive about the hook. I will promote the hook and if there are objections we will see them appear in DYKtalk. Bruxton (talk) 22:45, 13 May 2023 (UTC)