Talk:Maria Montessori/Archive 1

Archive 1

Needs work

This page could use some significant editing, which I'll try to do when I have time. It contains a number of misinterpretations and factual inaccuracies.MatthewDBA —Preceding undated comment added 00:19, 25 February 2005 (UTC)

California

Is it helpful to observe that there are three Montessori schools in California? I went to one in Minnesota, but somehow neither fact illuminates whatever global influence her methods have attained. Msr657 05:31, 23 November 2005 (UTC)

More info on early life

Montessori was the first female Italian physician in the modern era. As such, she was given a "menial" task: to try to educate the "mentally retarded" and the "uneducable" in Rome.

This says so much, but informs so little. What is the "non-modern" era implicit here? Were there female Italian physicians before her? Did she want to do "less menial" tasks, but was prevented? If so, by whom? What were these other tasks that were denied her? It would also appear from this that she was actually prevented from practicing medicine and forced to teach. Is that so? Would no patient go to see her? I don't see, from this article's information, how she could have been stopped from treating sick patients, unless she was stripped of her degree? I understand and agree that sexism would have prevented many women from achieving their dreams - but, in her specific case, how did this manifest?

Don't get me wrong. I'm not denying the contents of the article. I'd just like to see a better article written by people with more than my little knowledge of her life - I'm curious to know more! :) --NightMonkey 19:17, 6 January 2006 (UTC)

Casa dei Bambini

I am not positive, but I think the phrase "Casa dei Bambini" should be Casa di Bambini. Dei in latin is God, di in Italian is used as of or for. Pjanini1 15:51, 6 January 2006 (UTC)

changed--Adam ^(talk) 18:34, 6 January 2006 (UTC)

Casa DEI Bambini is correct. Casa di Bambini would mean House of Children as opposed to "House of the Children"

DEI means "of the", DI+I=DEI It's called a 'preposizione articolata' (preposition with article) in Italian. 'Dei' means 'gods' (plural) as well, but the vowel E is pronounced slightly differently. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 202.163.208.61 (talk) 16:09, 28 January 2006 (UTC)

Duplicate

The section on Pedagogy is an exact duplicate of the same section in Montessori method -- Peter 14:40, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

Cleanup

The "Career" section should be merged with the short biography in the intro. This includes wikifying the text. GhePeU 10:21, 22 April 2006 (UTC)

Copyright problems

This article has been copied from different sources which hold copyright. They are:

• Career section
• Main article information, triva and Pedagogy sections

This was a nice article but can't remain as is unless someone can point out why it is not a copyvio. --Brad101 00:38, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

• I have deleted all edits after the "Career" section was introduced. As for the Italylink.com page, it appears to be a scraper site, with little to no original content. The sections in question were written by multiple people and had revisions that would not be present if the text was copied (ex. [1]). All the articles I saw on Italylink.com were ripped from Wikipedia. Evil saltine 06:33, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

--84.188.54.149 13:32, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

Maria Montessori's Catholicism

To mention Montessori as a "feminist", but to make no mention of her being a devout Catholic seems odd. Montessori would not have described herself as a "feminist", but she would have made no qualms about being a devout Catholic. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Fedelm (talk • contribs) 01:28, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

maria montessori and the italian fascism

its a fact that there is a close n between montessori and the fascism, but is montesorri's concept itself fascistic?

As a former Montessori method student I can pretty safely say that it's not. — JIP | Talk 12:27, 28 September 2005 (UTC)

As a current Montessori student, I can back that up. DTPQueen 23:29, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

Montessori was not in Italy much during the 30's and 40's, she moved her base of operations out of Italy in the early 30's in part because of the problems with the fascist govt. A cursory reading of Montessori's writings will show that she expressly wants to develop the unique individual and not create one who simply follows a leader. Rearden9 15:20, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

I know I'm pretty much reviving a dead topic, but I'd like to add that Dr. Montessori was exiled from Italy (according to my teacher, who is an expert on Montessori) around the time of the fascism. 68.117.222.56 02:01, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

Biography assessment rating comment

WikiProject Biography Summer 2007 Assessment Drive

The article may be improved by following the WikiProject Biography 11 easy steps to producing at least a B article. -- Yamara 08:28, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

Early life....

For a biographical entry, I find it funny that some of the most interesting things about Montessori's life were not included. For example:

The fact that she was the first woman in Italy to attend medical school and become a doctor, something that she had to fight to do. She was intially refused entry.

She had an illegitmate child (Mario Montessori) who was fathered by another doctor with whom she worked. He later married another woman and she went to work in San Lorenzo.

The irony in that a woman who is credited with changing pedagogy worldwide, had her own son raised by others (distant relatives) in the countryside. Her son did not know that she was his mother until he was an adolescent. It begs the question that was it her observations of her son (with whom she did have contact) that led Montessori to her study of children in general?

Also, there is no mention of her personality and by several accounts, she was what could be called a control freak.

Cbarone 20:23, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

“Maximal decisions”?

“Children as competent beings, encouraged to make maximal decisions.” What is a maximal decision? Does this pedagogy explicitly discourage minimal decisions? What about medium-sized decisions? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ahruman (talk • contribs) 10:22, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

Good point, we should definitely include something about medium-sized decisions. johnpseudo 16:48, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

In general, the article does not inform as to specific techniques practiced by the Montessori schools.

If she was such a "devoute Catholic," why did make "the international Headquarters of the Theosophical Society at Adyar, Chennai, her home," at least according to the article? Many of her principles seem antithetical to Catholicism. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.124.181.218 (talk) 13:16, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

Badly written, hardly objective

Being a happy former Montessori-child myself, I do have to say that this article is very poorly written. It heralds Montessori and hardly gives any objective or structured view of the topic at hand.

I am sorry to say so, but I think that this article is unworthy of Wikipedia. 145.99.213.194 01:18, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

I don't agree that it is unworthy, just disorganized. Much of this article belongs in the article on the Montessori Method of Education as it is not about the woman who invented that method. This article is so poorly written that it goes from her birth to her death in the very next sentence! Unfortunately, I don't have any material *about* her, just books *by* her so I cannot help edit it. Estreya 21:20, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

On a similar note, is it worth mentioning her nominations for the Nobel Peace Prize? Nominations are not officially endorsed by the Nobel committee, and can be made by a large number of people. It's much less noteworthy than the article makes it seem. 70.171.32.200 (talk) 14:31, 28 August 2009 (UTC)

Exile

Whoever wrote "Montessori was exiled by Mussolini mostly because she refused to compromise her principles and make the children into soldiers." has got to be joking - or an idiot. Either way, this reference must be removed. Mussolini didn't want to turn kindergarten children into soldiers! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.197.15.138 (talk) 06:24, 28 December 2010 (UTC)

Apparent problem with cite

Article says:

"The efficacy of Montessori teaching methods has most recently been demonstrated by the results of a study published in the US journal, Science (29 September 2006)<ref name = Science>{{cite web | url = http://www.montessori-science.org | title = Montessori | publisher = Science | date = 2006-09-29}}</ref>"

This seems to be a cite to Science (journal), "the academic journal of the American Association for the Advancement of Science ... considered one of the world's most prestigious scientific journals", however the link is to http://www.montessori-science.org , which as far as I can tell is not the same thing.
Am I missing something here or do we need to fix this? -- 201.37.230.43 (talk) 22:45, 10 August 2009 (UTC)

With most journals, articles are not normally free to access online - you either have to have access as part of an organization (such as a college) with an online access agreement with the journal, or pay some sort of per-access fee. However, in this case, the web site for Montessori: The Science Behind the Genius has arranged for the article to be accessible freely via a link from their site. It's likely that the link to sciencemag.org would not work without the proper referrer: header, or at least that it would be considered a misuse of the link.

However, I would agree that the reference should be to the subpage where the link is located, not to the top page, and I'm changing that now. John Darrow (talk) 00:34, 12 August 2009 (UTC)

Is there no other scientific analysis of Montessori methods or results? If this one American study is the sole investigation, how can Montessori claim that their methods are proven? The AAAS survey is not exactly an endorsement of Monetessori teaching. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.197.15.138 (talk) 06:26, 28 December 2010 (UTC)

Rewrite

I have completed and posted a major rewrite of this article. I hope I have improved the article and provided adequate sourcing and verifiability. Feel free to contact me at my talk page. Dave Ayer (talk) 04:54, 17 February 2012 (UTC)

Great work! That must have taken some time to write! Do note though that this article is only on my watchlist because of this vandalism that lasted for nine days, and I know nothing about the subject.

I initially reverted your expansion because I thought it was vandalism: you'd accidentally removed most of the interwiki links and didn't provide an edit summary. However once I'd read the message on this talk page, I fixed my mistake.

I've wikified the article and edited it to conform to Wikipedia's Manual of Style; I've also adjusted it so it works better with screen readers. I have one question: in reference 63, you wrote " Kramer 302–204". I assume you meant " Kramer 302–304"? I've changed it to the latter page range. Graham87 15:24, 17 February 2012 (UTC)

Graham87--Thanks! Sorry about any hamhandedness with the edit; I'm pretty new here. In the interest of improving my editing, could you detail the wikification and MOS changes you made? On my talk page is fine. Thanks for the catch on the footnote. Do you know how I can bring the article to the attention of the projects referenced above, since, as a complete rewrite, it probably merits review there? Thanks again. Dave Ayer (talk) 19:21, 21 February 2012 (UTC)

I linked most of the cities that you mentioned in the article, changed the dashes to conform with Wikipedia's house style on such things, used italics for books (though another editor kindly fixed the ones that I missed), used straight apostrophes and quotes (and quotes for quotations rather than apostrophes), used proper section headings in all cases (for screen readers), and fixed the occasional typo and grammatical error. I've just adjusted the ratings for all the projects; a b-class rating is the highest one that an editor can give an article without going through any further review processes. But if you'd like to take the article further, ask for a peer review for suggestions from other editors as to how to improve the page so it can be nominated as either a good article or a featured article; the latter is more prestigious and means that the article can be featured on the Main Page, but its standards are correspondingly high. (By the way, you can just call me Graham; there's no need to copy users' signatures when addressing them). Graham87 01:34, 22 February 2012 (UTC)

Religion

'Devout Catholic' needs to be PUT BACK instead of Athiest. Thank you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.66.50.22 (talk) 04:46, 31 August 2012 (UTC)

Edit request on 31 August 2012

Please change his to her in under the subtitle 'Internment in India'. It currently reads as :

Mario was reunited with his mother

It should be :

Mario was reunited with her mother

Ankit Khandelwal 07:11, 31 August 2012 (UTC)

Wait a sec. Was Mario reunited with Mario's mother or with Maria's mother? A boat that can float! (watch me float!) 08:16, 31 August 2012 (UTC)

Mario's mother, clearly. Not done. Graham87 08:39, 31 August 2012 (UTC)

Family irony

Just wondering if an item on her (great?) granddaughter who was a youth in trouble with the law before running away and being murdered should be added. It seems ironic that the way of life espoused by Montessori couldn't help her own family.--Daffydavid (talk) 06:01, 31 August 2012 (UTC)

You mean that story? I'd say probably not, since we have no idea how that murdered girl was educated – if under her great-great-grandmother's system or otherwise. As an aside, why on earth has this article received so much attention recently? Graham87 08:49, 31 August 2012 (UTC)

Aha, I've just discovered that Google is featuring her on its homepage today. Graham87 08:52, 31 August 2012 (UTC)

Edit request on 31 August 2012, addition to Mario Montessori, section The Netherlands 1917-1936

To add to the section 'The Netherlands 1917-1936':

During the 1920’s Dr. Maria Montessori collaborated with Albert Nienhuis for the purpose of constructing materials in accordance with her educational philosophy. These meetings led to a lasting association in which the evolution of her method became materialized in the workshop of Albert Nienhuis. He selected the best woods, glues, paints and hardware, applying his craftsmanship to produce the special didactic apparatus that met Dr. Montessori’s exacting requirements. As the years went by, Dr. Montessori’s educational method received worldwide acceptance. Nienhuis Montessori responded to this growth by expanding its complement of artisans and the manufacturing facilities to meet the growing needs of the Montessori movement worldwide. Today, after many decades, Nienhuis still continues the tradition of craftsmanship and quality to produce the didactic materials to Maria Montessori's requirments as the largest authorized manufacturer of Montessori materials. A small museum located at Nienhuis, The Netherlands, exhibits some of the early materials.

Source and reference: www.nienhuis.com as well as the Dutch wikipedia page http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maria_Montessori

Xalvo (talk) 14:43, 31 August 2012 (UTC)

Not done; that text is mostly lifted off this site (which doesn't even mention Albert's country of origin at all), and other language versions of Wikipedia are not reliable sources. It's probably worth talking about Albert's factory, but better and more detailed sources should be used than the company's own press release. Graham87 06:56, 1 September 2012 (UTC)

Edit request on 31 August 2012

I think that there is a typographical error in the first sentence of the subsection "Orthophrenic School", of Section 1.3, "Early Career".

It reads: "... or Orthpophrenic School, ..."

It should read "... or Orthophrenic School, ...", without the first "p". W. Racicot

Fixed; thanks for letting me know. Graham87 06:58, 1 September 2012 (UTC)

Closing as Done by Graham87. A boat that can float! (watch me float!) 05:24, 2 September 2012 (UTC)

Thanks; oops, I should've done that. :-) Graham87 06:43, 2 September 2012 (UTC)

Edit request on 1 September 2012

==Commemorations== ===Montessori's 142nd Birthday Google Doodle=== Maria Montessori was commemorated with a Google Doodle on August 31, 2012 and what would have been her 142nd birthday.<ref>{{cite web|title=Maria Montessori's 142nd Birthday Google Doodle|url=http://rushtips.com/maria-montessori-s-142nd-birthday-google-doodle|accessdate=2012-08-31}}</ref></nowiki?> <!-- End request --> TheHelping (talk) 00:21, 1 September 2012 (UTC)

I don't think that's notable enough. OIt's a fairly random anniversary. Graham87 07:31, 1 September 2012 (UTC)

A lot of pages mention their individuals Google doodle. It's part of her history, the founders of Google went to a Montessori school and they wanted to commemorate her. — Preceding unsigned comment added by TheHelping (talk • contribs) 12:11, 1 September 2012 (UTC)

I will refrain from marking this request as answered to allow somebody else to give their opinion. However as a rough check of the people at Google logo# Interactive and video doodles shows that 7 out of 24 of them (less than a third) mention their Google Doodles in their article: Nikola Tesla, Robert Moog (which I removed due to being utterly irrelevant to the section it was in), H. G. Wells (as a footnote), Freddie Mercury, Dennis Gabor, Constantin Brâncuși, and Abdel Halim Hafez (obliquely, in a reference talking about the Google Doodle). It's not part of her history at all; a recent event that *would* be part of her history would be if, for example, writings of hers were discovered. Also, see the message on your user talk page; I'm wondering why you're adding several references to the same site – just a glorified blog – that no other Wikipedia editors have referenced. Graham87 14:55, 1 September 2012 (UTC)

So after a person dies, their history stops and everything else becomes irrelevant and should be removed, unless of course you think it's good to know? I guess you're a knowledge-Nazi and decide what people should know and shoot them down if they question you.. It's relevant because it's part of her history, even after her death people want to remember her. I have a blog where I post articles about Google related information, it so happened to be a Google doodle about Maria Montessori, so I would say my site is qualified to be a reference. Or maybe I need a famous site for that to be okay? TheHelping (talk) 00:05, 2 September 2012 (UTC)

Please stop attacking other people by denouncing them as "knowledge-Nazis". Blogs are unacceptable as sources because they are user-generated content and have no editorial oversight. Please read the policy on sources before commenting any more on this discussion. A boat that can float! (watch me float!) 06:09, 2 September 2012 (UTC)

Not done: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{edit semi-protected}} template. The first step towards seeking consensus will be to provide a source that meets the guideline. The second is to lose the sarcasm and be patient with other editors even when you think they're wrong. Fwiw, I tend to agree with Graham87 that it's not particularly noteworthy, but I don't feel strongly about it. Come back with a reliable source, start a new discussion (no need for a formal edit request), and see if consensus comes your way. Rivertorch (talk) 10:11, 2 September 2012 (UTC)

Sorry about the bad choice of words. I just feel strongly about equality, if one "blog" is allowed something, so should the next. Since you make the calls, I just have to sit this one out. Anyway, keep up the good work everyone. TheHelping (talk) 20:32, 9 September 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for checking back in and adding the kind words, but I'm a little puzzled by your second sentence. I don't see any blogs being used as references in the article. Am I overlooking one? If you find an instance of an editor using his or her own blog or personal website to support their own original research on any semiprotected article, please report it and I think you'll find that it disappears in a hurry. Rivertorch (talk) 22:35, 9 September 2012 (UTC)

"Blogs are unacceptable as sources because they are user-generated content and have no editorial oversight." or is it "an editor using his or her own blog or personal website to support their own original research on any semiprotected article", which one applies to me?

Not all of these have a blog reference, just showing a few with a doodle.

• Jim Henson
• Mary Blair
• Parkes Observatory is Gizmodo not a blog?
• Pi Day
• S. R. Crown_Hall
• Lucille Ball check the link, looks like a blog to me.

I'm certain that someone working at the site, maybe even the writer, submitted their article as a ref. I guess you can see what other links those users have submitted and determine if it's their site or not. TheHelping (talk) 06:17, 10 September 2012 (UTC)

Both apply to you and everyone. I'll take a look at the articles you linked—just a bit pressed for time now. Rivertorch (talk) 19:32, 10 September 2012 (UTC)

All six articles you link cite reliable sources for their respective Google Doodle mentions. Gizmodo contains content written by professional journalists and has professional editorial oversight, Pi Day is sourced to Google itself (a primary source but fine for verifying something this trivial), and the other four, including Lucy, are sourced to major, reputable daily newspapers. There are some shades of gray regarding the word "blog", but that's beyond the scope of what should be discussed here. I'd be happy to continue the conversation on your talk page or mine. Also, the Reliable Sources Noticeboard is available if you'd ever like a second (or third or fourth) opinion on a source. Rivertorch (talk) 09:23, 11 September 2012 (UTC)

I love montessori!

Montessori is really cool. I had no idea that she was on the 1000 bill. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.194.221.170 (talk) 01:09, 3 February 2013 (UTC)

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