Talk:Maria Palaiologina

Untitled

We should note that Maria's sister was married by Michael to Khan Nogai, who maintained an attitude of tolerance towards the Christians. Many ladies in the Palaiologoi family were baptised with the name of the Theotokos, so perhaps the page should be moved to a different name. --Ghirla^-трёп- 18:29, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

Wow. Great information! Thanks Ghirla! PHG 18:55, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

Saint Mary

The church is called "Saint Mary of the Mongols", but does anyone know if Maria was actually beatified or canonized? --Elonka 21:26, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

I don't think that "Saint Mary" actually refers to Maria. She was merely the builder of the church, and, naturally, chose to dedicate it to her namesake. Either way, if you look at the article on the church, you will see that it was already dedicated to the Theotokos before Maria rebuilt it. Cplakidas (talk) 23:27, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

Thanks, can you provide any sources on that? --Elonka 02:03, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

The source is Müller-Wiener (Bildlexikon), I added a note in the article about the church. Cheers, Alex2006 (talk) 05:56, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

Thanks, and do you by any chance have birth/death years for her? --Elonka 06:02, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

I will check for you. And now an observation: the church became popularly known as the "Church of Saint Mary of the Mongols" even though Maria herself was never canonized. The name Saint Mary of the Mongols is only the english translation of the greek name, which is Theotokos Mouchliotissa. The princess name was Maria, NOT Theotokos. This means that there is NO relation between the dedication of the church (which was anyway preceding the birth of Maria) and the Princess' Name. The last part of the sentence should be removed. Cheers, Alex2006 (talk) 07:33, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

I'm sorry, I'm not understanding what you're getting at. But please feel free to edit the article directly. --Elonka 07:37, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

He's getting at the fact that Theotokos is an attribut of the Virgin Mary, it means "Bearer of God", i.e. Mother of God. So the Church is obviously dedicated to the Theotokos, i.e. to the Virgin Mary. Maria Despina Palaiologina "of the Mongols" is in no way considered by anyone to be Mother of God and I don't think we need a source for that. I mean we don't need a source to prove that Mother Theresa is not also considered Mother of God in the Catholic Church do we? it's obvious. For the Meaning of "Theotokos" check out the WIkipedia article on Theotokos, with plenty of sources for the name cited there. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Omulurimaru (talk • contribs) 00:04, 9 November 2010 (UTC)

Useful bibliography

• Alice-Mary Talbot, "Building Activity in Constantinople under Andronikos II: the Role of Women Patrons in the Construction and Restoration of Monasteries" Byzantine Constantinople: Monuments, Topography, and Everyday Life, ed. Nevra Necipoğlu (Leiden, 2001), pp. 334-336.

Image

Image of Maria with inscription.

Image of Maria with inscription. PHG ^{Per Honor et Gloria} 20:47, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

Complete image

Chora Maria mosaic.

Here's the full mosaic depicting Maria Palaiologina. The Greek inscription reads "...of Andronicus Palaeologus, the Lady of the Mongols, Melane the nun" [1]. There seem to be doubt however whether this depiction is the one of Maria Palaiologina or the later Maria, who married Toqta, khan of the Golden Horde [2]. Interestingly, the figure of Maria is balanced with that of Emperor Isaac Comnenus as a benefactor to the church, a position of symbolic importance. Fell free to insert this image in the article. Per Honor et Gloria ✍ 19:30, 4 May 2010 (UTC)