Talk:Marie Louise Marcadet

Singer and actress

I have noticed that questions of this distinction are often asked after on thes articles. The truth is, that up until about the mid 19th century, the distiction among the singers of the opera and the actros of the theatre was not as strict as it became later; both the singers and the actors were expected to sing and act. If singers had dramatic talent, they were expected to act in the theatre; and if actors were able to sing, they were expected to act in operas. Therefore, many of these artists (far from all, however) are known to have been both singers and actors in paralell, although one of these careers strongly dominated. Marcadet is known to have been both.--85.226.41.66 (talk) 14:43, 2 February 2009 (UTC)

I may add something to do with this. When the royal theatre was founded, there were a big shortage of actors. The king then gave his permission for the opera singers to be active also in the theatre, in those cases when they had such ability; both the opera and the theatre was under royal management. Far from all did this, but it was not uncommon, especially since the opera and the theatre shared the same building in 1825-1863. After 1863, this was no longer usual.--85.226.47.151 (talk) 15:36, 14 February 2009 (UTC)

Roles undertaken by Marcadet

The parts are in danger of being deleted because the composer of the works is not written in the article. So I will place them here: She played Henriette in De bägge girige (The two greedy ones) by Grétry (season 1777-1778), Arséne in Arséne by Monsigny with Elisabeth Olin and Christoffer Christian Karsten and Iphigenie in Iphigenie in Aulis by Glück with Carl Stenborg (1779-1780), Cybele in Atys by Piccinni with Carl Stenborg and Kristofer Kristian Karsten (1784-1785), Hermione in Andromaque by Grétry with Franziska Stading, Cecilia av Eka in Gustaf Wasa by Naumann with Carl Stenborg, Kristofer Kristian Karsten and Caroline Halle-Müller (1785-1786), Ramfrid in Folke Birgersson till Ringstad with Kristofer Kristian Karsten and Inga Åberg (1792-1793), and Minerva in Alcides inträde i världen (The arival of Alcide to the world) by Haeffner (1793-1794).--85.226.47.151 (talk) 10:42, 3 February 2009 (UTC)

These all appear to be operas, not plays. Is that correct? --Kleinzach 07:53, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

I will have to check that. However; it is very important to make clear, that she was both an opera singer, and a dramatic actress. The reference are very clear in the matter; she was a member of both the opera and the theatre in paralell. She participated in several of the most noted opera performances, but she was also one of the two most noted actresses of the theatre, and did in fact have a place in the board of directors of the royal theatre. She is, in fact, well remembered in both the opera history and in the theatre history in Sweden, which is important to credit. I know this can be confusing for a modern person, as the distinction between actors and singers are very clear nowadays, but up until the mid 19th century, it was common for these Swedish artists to have two careers in Stockholm; one operatic, and one dramatic one, so many of them are kalled both singers and actors in their articles. However, this did not aply to all of them, and it should be made clear in which cases this is correct.--85.226.47.151 (talk) 08:30, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

Focused on the matter of actress/singer, I discovered that the article was not clear enough regarding this. I have corrected this. It is now somewath clearer. I may add, that although she participated in some of the greatest opera performances, she was in fact more noted for her dramatic career, than for her operatic. --85.226.47.151 (talk) 08:45, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

This is hardly credible if all the references are to operas. Also note that no other European artists of this period were both singers and actors. As now, singers and actors had different techniques/careers etc. They didn't cross over. P.S. I'd also appreciate it if you could check your spelling (there have been many errors) and make wikilinks in the text(s) to other articles in the English Wikipedia. This will help identify works. --Kleinzach 09:01, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

I fully agree that her dramatic parts should be given more attention in the article. It seems focused on her operatic parts. One explanation is that the theatre archives burnt in 1825. However, anyone with the smallest knowledge about Swedish opera and theatre history during this period will confirm what I have said above. This is confirmed by all books I have read in the matter, so please ask anyone with knowledge in the matter, and it will be confirmed again by any Swedish opera- and theatre expert. To remove that will be historically incorrect. It is fully referenced. --85.226.47.151 (talk) 09:12, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

Up to now this articles — and similar ones — have been riddled with errors. It's not for me to criticize the sources, since I don't have access to them, but the information hitherto added to this article has been below WP standard, so it has to be corrected. --Kleinzach 09:31, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

I can agree on this, of course; the fact that she was both actress and singer was soemwhat unclear and blurred in the text. Of course, being written by someone with another language, badly spelled articles can still be correct and written by a serious and well informed editor, as the spelling errors was not intentional, but of course they must be corrected. They can also be re-worded, to make the information in them more clear, as the wording was not clear enough to make things easily understadable for everyone. --85.226.47.151 (talk) 09:42, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

For example, this sentence:

"Among her most admired parts was Clytaimnestra [sic], Merope, Jocasta in Oedipe, Statira in Olympie, Athalia and countess Walltron."

These roles — with the exception of countess Walltron which is completely unknown to me — could be from any of dozens of operas and plays with classical themes. --Kleinzach 09:59, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

I will try to identify them. Countess Walltron, I believe, was from the theatre drama Der Graf von Walltron by Heinrich Ferdinand Möller.--85.226.47.151 (talk) 08:27, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

Merope by Voltaire, Oedipe by Adlerbeth, Olympie by Kellgren, Athalia by Racine.--85.226.47.151 (talk) 16:00, 14 February 2009 (UTC)

Do you mean Gudmund Jöran Adlerbeth? It really would help a lot if you could provide full names (and links). You shouldn't always expect other people to do this for you. --Kleinzach 01:18, 11 March 2009 (UTC)

Actually, it does not seem to be correct that "no other European artists of this period were both singers and actors". Wikipedia is full of articles of singers/actors/dancers from all countries in Europe.It rather seem to have been very common in the 18th century. Here is one: Marie Favart, called both opera singer, actress and dancer, which you yourself edited before this. My impression is that this was common in the 18th century.--85.226.44.201 (talk) 17:32, 10 March 2009 (UTC)

Opera singers obviously do act on stage and this has lead to confusion in some people's minds. If you look at the Marie Favart articles you won't find any career as such in the spoken theatre. I don't know who added the 'actress' phrase to this article. As you will have seen this was not an article I started. If you can find one important singer of the period who was on both stages, please tell me. --Kleinzach 01:11, 11 March 2009 (UTC)

Oh, that does not matter. I am not interested in winning a discussion. It was just a reflexion. In the French article she is both a ballet dancer and an opera singer. One interesting thing about wikipedia is, that people seem to take all of this as a battle of life and death and survival of the fittest. I used to be just like that myself a couple of years ago. (I am not your mortal enemy!) I can not say anything about countries outside of Scandinavia. But of course, it is just nice that you take it seriously! --85.226.44.201 (talk) 11:23, 11 March 2009 (UTC)

And of course, to call some one elses spelling "bizarre" and such like you did in the revision history is unecessesary: even if you think so, it is not polite, and not very kind to those who tried the best they could. You see, it gives the impression that you are imature and which to cause an argument. It is best merely to say: "wrong spelling", and then correct it. Just an advice to you! To use your language just causes uneccessary ill feelings and conflicts. --85.226.44.201 (talk) 08:59, 12 March 2009 (UTC)

Citation

This: she was mentioned by Carl von Fersen as an example of the meaning of education in his book The Improvement of the Swedish Opera and entertainment, written in 1780 is from the book by Östberg, but I don't know how to cite that. --85.226.47.151 (talk) 16:42, 11 February 2009 (UTC)

You can use <ref></ref> tags. --Kleinzach 09:03, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

Thank you. I will try when I have better time.--85.226.47.151 (talk) 08:28, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

Unreferenced text omitted, templates added

The Marie Louise Marcadet article appeared to be brand new when I first saw it, with its innumerable problems. I was surprised to learn that the article is not brand new, but suffers from long-term neglect. For 10 years, unreferenced information has existed in the article, along with claims by editors that eventually fixes were to come. This article is in need of fresher, stronger TLC than it has received in the past.  spintendo  10:00, 26 July 2018 (UTC)