Talk:Marines' Hymn

Text of hymn?

Somebody got the full text ? It would imho do well do have it here.

Greetz Hexren 09:19, 18 November 2003 User:213.39.181.251

A mock version

What about the famous scurrilous verse? This is so popular as to be almost official, but I have refrained from putting it on the main page until someone concurs the profanity is appropriate.

From the halls of Montezuma, to the shores of Tripoli,
We have fucked the whores on foreign shores to prove our virility.
We use pro kits and rubber tips to keep our peckers clean;
Still we have the highest VD rate; we're United States Marines.

05:58, 31 January 2006 User:65.184.163.27

• Gee, do you think pissing off 200,000 Marines is a good idea? Hey User:65.184.163.27 are you there? I guess not.--96.244.247.130 (talk) 00:07, 21 August 2011 (UTC)
• I would not be the slightest bit surprised if US Marines, at least unofficially, took great pride in the verse. I can think of a verse in a similar vein (and to the same tune), though more offensive, about the Queen's Own Infantry. Philculmer (talk) 08:38, 19 September 2017 (UTC)

"...which had its début in Paris in 1859."

"...which had its début in Paris in 1859."

"....country's battles in the air, on land and sea..."

Huh? Really?

Premonition? Esp?

Hopiakuta 21:10, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

The music premiered in 1859. The words came later. As noted in the Trivia section, "in the air" was added in 1942.

The tune is not the Gendarmes' Duet ("We run them in, we run them in") at all. It is in march tempo. The Gendarmes Duet is in 4/4, but in dotted rhythm. They both deserve separate entries, anyway.At http://millennium.fortunecity.com/redwood/352/usmc10.htm they seem to be saying that the Gendarmes' Duet was the source, but the words or the tune? One man thought that they sounded similar. And from that page, Mr Smith, who was himself a musician, comments: "I am informed, however, by one of the members of the band, who has a Spanish wife, that the aria was one familiar to her childhood and it may, therefore, be a Spanish folk song." There is no direct evidence linking the two. There are plenty of examples of accidental duplication, right through the history of music. Are we to conclude that Offenbach modelled his aria on a Spanish folk song? There is as much evidence of that as there is of anything -- namely, no evidence at all.

I know the tune of the Marines Hymn well, and we are performing the English version of the Gendarmes' Duet tomorrow.Douglaid (talk) 08:16, 30 October 2010 (UTC)

Wikipedia's article on aerial warfare says it "began in ancient times, with the use of man-carrying kites in Ancient China. In the third century it progressed to balloon warfare." I seem to remember reading that hot air balloons were used for espionage in the 1861-1865 Civil War in the U.S., so it's not implausible that the marines might have had them in 1859.47.139.44.178 (talk) 03:42, 6 January 2020 (UTC)

Is this wrong? Re. halls of montezuma

Hi, y'all.

So, someone did some independent research, and posted about it. He wrote, re. the attribution of the Halls of Montezuma to what the article currently says,

"I think Wikipedia is incorrect on this point. This search in Google Book Search demonstrates more convincingly that the reference is to the National Palace on the Zocalo." And he links to http://books.google.com/books?q=%22halls+of+montezuma%22+national+palace&btnG=Search+Books, a book search, to support his point.

I'm not sure if that's the best way to do it, but it does indicate to me some disagreement in the literature with the conclusion reached, without discussion, in this article's opening para.

Does anyone have a reliable source that discusses this, and is this a real controversy or a non-one?~~ Eh Nonymous 09:32, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

Did anybody ever listen to the two tunes, side by side? It is like the difference between actually going out and LOOKING at a flower and reading a description of one from a book. Get out of your automobiles, occasionally.Douglaid (talk) 15:22, 30 October 2010 (UTC)

"1890"?

"The original lyrics in use from 1890 until 1919..." There's no evidence here, or anywhere else that I can find, to show that the hymn existed in 1890. I have deleted the "1890" reference. —Preceding unsigned comment added by PhD (talk • contribs) 02:58, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

United States Marine Corps

I'd like to point out that many countries and nations have marines, this hymn applies specifically to The United States Marine Corps, or USMC, and ought to be titled as such. I'm not sure how to implement this change however. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.20.211.193 (talk) 05:10, 13 April 2009 (UTC)

The title of the song is the Marines' Hymn. There's no need to disambiguate that. For example, there are also many different republics in the world, but we don't need to add anything to Battle Hymn of the Republic, because that's what it's called. Other marine services may have songs to go along with them, but they have their own titles. This is the Marines' Hymn. Kafziel ^{Complaint Department} 06:03, 13 April 2009 (UTC)

I was always taught it was "Marine Corps Anthem." 65.102.29.32 (talk)A REDDSON —Preceding undated comment added 18:15, 20 June 2009 (UTC).

Why isn’t this a sub-topic of the Offenbach original???

I can’t begin to fathom why a set of words set to an established (albeit slightly adjusted) tune is the main subject here, especially as it then twists and hammers at the topic to make bits fit.

The original song is “The Gendarmes Duet”, from an opera by Offenbach; The “Marines’ Hymn” of the U.S. Marine Corps, the Australian football song and the British football song all derive from it.

The way the article reads makes it seem like it was some sort of secret or surprise that the Hymn plagiarised the Offenbach (which is the case, copyright given or not, because Offenbach would have had rights in it), and that just isn’t the case - the duet being a popular piece into the late 20th C., and probably better known round the world than the Halls of Montezuma stuff, which has as much currency outside the U.S. as a Sunderland football song has in America I would guess.

It also makes it seem that the Australian and British versions derive from the Hymn, which just can’t be justified - they merely do what the USMC did, and add words to the Offenbach.

I think that there should be a main article on The Gendarmes’ Duet, and that the three other version given are listed as derivative of it.79.67.148.152 (talk) 10:56, 7 November 2009 (UTC)

If you can establish notability and write an article for it, then go right ahead.

To your comments, I'm sure that the average American was not familiar with Geneviève de Brabant, so yes, it was a suprise when Major Wallach noted the tune after a trip to Paris. You'll also note where Walter F. Smith noted that the tune resembled a Spanish folk song before the opera was written. But there is far more to the song than simply the music behind the words, which is why the English Wikipedia has an article here. bahamut0013^words_deeds 17:02, 8 November 2009 (UTC)

Montezuma and Tripoli

"Some of the lyrics were popular phrases before the song was written. The line "To the shores of Tripoli" refers to the First Barbary War, and specifically the Battle of Derne in 1805. After Lieutenant Presley O'Bannon and his Marines hoisted the American flag over the Old World for the first time, the phrase was added to the battle colors of the Corps. "The Halls of Montezuma" refers to the Battle of Chapultepec, during the Mexican-American War, where a force of Marines stormed Chapultepec Castle."

Exactly what and where are the "Halls of Montezuma"? Which "Tripoli" is meant? This article is seriously defective. Furthermore, the articles on "Tripoli, Lebanon" and "Lebanon" are missing critical information. Dagme (talk) 16:51, 26 February 2011 (UTC)

Did you bother to read the linked articles? Montezuma refers to Chapultepec Castle, and the link to Tripoli is exactly that city. Where the heck does Lebanon come into play here? If the lyrics had referred to Tripoli, Lebanon, it would have linked there. bahamut0013^words_deeds 19:00, 26 February 2011 (UTC)

Where the heck does Lebanon come into play here? Where the heck does Tripoli come in? They were in Derne/Derna. That's 500 miles east of Tripoli. What the hell is everyone thinking?Longinus876 (talk) 11:21, 17 January 2019 (UTC)

Derne was part of the Barbary State of Tripoli, which state was named after its capital and chief city of Tripoli. ‘The shores of Tripoli’ refers to the coastline of that state. 2A00:23C7:E287:1900:2DD6:E0E4:1223:B420 (talk) 18:43, 26 September 2021 (UTC)

"1891 copyright"

This claim appears at numerous websites. I find no corroboration of it in the Library of Congress copyright records. Nor did music historian James Fuld when he investigated the song's history. I have indicated as much in the text. If someone has documentary proof of thsi 1891 copyright, it should be sourced. — Preceding unsigned comment added by PhD (talk • contribs) 23:49, 27 March 2011 (UTC)

OK, I see the problem, The true copyright date was "18 August 1919." I have made the correction. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.122.235.145 (talk) 00:04, 28 March 2011 (UTC)

Soccer lyrics WP:NNC?

I believe the lyrics to the British soccer songs are not appropriate for this page, citing WP:NNC. The lyrics are perfectly notable, and appropriate, on the Manchester United and Sunderland articles, but they are WP:UNDUE content in this article. The lyrics should go, although a mention that alternative lyrics for such British soccer teams do exist might be appropriate in this article. --64.85.217.184 (talk) 08:10, 5 April 2011 (UTC)

Change in 1940s to reflect new air power?

I understand that the Marines' Hymn was changed around World War II to reflect the advent of air power in the arsenal of the USMC.

The original lyrics:

• From the halls of Montezuma
• To the shores of Tripoli
• We will fight our country's battles
• On the land and on the sea

The revised lyrics (used today):

• From the halls of Montezuma
• To the shores of Tripoli
• We will fight our country's battles
• In the air, on land or sea

Could there be a mention of this change? Bill S. (talk) 14:27, 12 February 2012 (UTC)

the Marines erected on Bougainville: - not very likely

regarding the extra lyrics...

"the Marines erected on Bougainville:

So when we reach the 'Isle of Japan'

with our caps at a jaunty tilt,

we'll enter the city of Tokyo

on the roads the Seabees built."

The Marines have a great appreciation and respect for almost all Naval personnel, even especially Seabees. However, I have sincere doubts any Marine(s) put up such a sign. More likely it was the Seabees themselves taking a shot at the Marines. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.20.2.26 (talk) 20:34, 26 October 2013 (UTC)

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Name of the hymn

http://www.marineband.marines.mil/About/Library-and-Archives/The-Marines-Hymn/ and http://www.hqmc.marines.mil/hrom/New-Employees/About-the-Marine-Corps/Hymn/ , both on the official USMC website, use "Marines' Hymn" as the title. Thanks. - BilCat (talk) 19:39, 30 August 2017 (UTC)

Lyrics

I don't think that Thomas Holcomb can be described as the author of the lyrics in the infobox. He authorised an amendment to the fourth line of the first verse in 1942, and didn't write that himself. I'll change the lyrics author to 'unknown', since that is in agreement with the Marines' own website. —BillC ^talk 00:12, 15 August 2020 (UTC)