Talk:Mark Selby/GA1

GA Review

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Reviewer: BennyOnTheLoose (talk · contribs) 15:12, 13 October 2020 (UTC)

GA review (see here for what the criteria are, and here for what they are not)
It is reasonably well written. a (prose, spelling, and grammar): b (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists): It is factually accurate and verifiable. a (references): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR): d (copyvio and plagiarism): It is broad in its coverage. a (major aspects): b (focused): It follows the neutral point of view policy. Fair representation without bias: It is stable. No edit wars, etc.: It is illustrated by images, where possible and appropriate. a (images are tagged and non-free images have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):
Overall: Pass/Fail:
· · ·

Happy to discuss, or be challenged on, any of my review comments. Regards, BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 15:12, 13 October 2020 (UTC)

Copyvio and plagiarism check

• Earwig's Copyvio Detector threw up some 90%+ matches but these look like dodgy backwards-copy sites. I looked at the other matches above 5.7% and had no concerns. (There are a couple of phrases in the article that occur elsewhere, but these look like common wordings.)

Images

• No issues.

Infobox

• What's the source for date of birth? (It's not in the article body.)
  • Cited in body Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 17:45, 13 October 2020 (UTC)
• Is there a source for career earnings?
  • Struggling. I'd suggest this is probably OR. Happy to remove. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 17:45, 13 October 2020 (UTC)
• Is there a source for century breaks?
  • Added. If the source is no good, snooker scene has him down at 630 from October. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 17:45, 13 October 2020 (UTC)
    • That website is a little too honest according to machine translation: "The website is completely amateur, made by people with little knowledge of snooker...so there may be mistakes" As number of centuries will be an issue with many articles, I think a consensus should be sought amongst interested parties about how to include this going forward. In the meantime (if the template allows) I suggest that the 630 with the Snooker Scene citation and an additional note like "(as of October 2020)", similar to how the current ranking is annotated. I'm open to other ideas here, or to being pointed to policy or past consensus if one exists. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 00:16, 14 October 2020 (UTC)
      • No, I agree. I'll open something at WT:SNOOKER later. I don't think this is something someone can independently verify from WP:COUNT, so needs a proper citation. Snooker Scene is pretty close, so I'll change to that when I'm next online. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 10:58, 14 October 2020 (UTC)
• I don't think it's necessary to wikilink "£" but that's an optional change.

Lead

• Looks fine now the unsourced info has been removed.

Early life

• Seems fine.

Snooker Career

• 1998-2006:"Selby showed potential as a teenager, but did not play snooker at a consistent level until his twenties" - I'm not seeing this in the source. Maybe another word for consistent, too. (I'm consistent, but I'm also rubbish.)
  • removed. Fluff. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 20:22, 14 October 2020 (UTC)
• 1998-2006:"An early winner of the England under-15 championship" - not sure why "early" - was it one of the first U-15 events? Again, doesn't quite seem to be in source.
  • Hold over from a prior event named, I have reworded Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 20:22, 14 October 2020 (UTC)
• 1998-2006:Refs 13 and 14 are the same source. 13 should be changed for something that verifies that Selby lost in the last qualifying round in 2003
  • I've added Snooker Scene ref, I can't find much about qualifying for that year. Can remove if not covered. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 20:22, 14 October 2020 (UTC)
• 1998-2006:"progressed to the main draw of the World Snooker Championship for the first time in 2005" - 'first time' not verified by source.
  • Removed Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 20:22, 14 October 2020 (UTC)
• 1998-2006:"Since making his Crucible debut, he has qualified for the main knockout stages of the tournament every year, including the 2006 World Championship, despite his final qualifying round opponent Robert Milkins making a 147." not verified by source
  • Removed. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 20:22, 14 October 2020 (UTC)
• 2007-2011:cuegloss "frame"
  • Done Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 20:22, 14 October 2020 (UTC)
• 2007-2011:"after the Sunday sessions" consider mentioning that this was the first of two days.
  • reworded Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 20:22, 14 October 2020 (UTC)
• 2007-2011:"His performances earned him £110,000 (not far off half of his pre-tournament all-time earnings)." is uncited
  • removed Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 20:22, 14 October 2020 (UTC)
• 2007-2011:"noted by eventual world champion John Higgins, amongst others," - I'm not seeing any others in the source.
  • Removed.
• 2007-2011:"After a moderate start to the season" is uncited
  • Removed Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 20:22, 14 October 2020 (UTC)
• 2007-2011:"second-highest ranking tournament" is uncited
  • removed Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 20:22, 14 October 2020 (UTC)
• 2007-2011:"he had edged out Stephen Hendry, Stephen Maguire and Ken Doherty, all on a 6–5 scoreline (having been 3–5 behind against both Hendry and Maguire)" - source does not name players or state that Selby was 3-5 behind in two of those matches. (Looks like the links in the sidebar there probably would verify all of this)
  • removed Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 20:22, 14 October 2020 (UTC)
• 2007-2011:"Selby's play in the final was of the highest standard" - can this be toned down slightly? (e.g. high rather than highest?)
  • Agreed Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 20:22, 14 October 2020 (UTC)
• 2007-2011:"[141] .. was Selby's best in competitive play" not verified by source.
  • removed Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 20:22, 14 October 2020 (UTC)
• 2007-2011:"...was handed a writ..." - it would be nice to know what happened next about the writ, but not necessary for GA.
  • I have expanded from the source. No other info I have (probably behind closed doors now!) Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 20:22, 14 October 2020 (UTC)
• 2007-2011:"Selby reached the final of the Masters again where he was runner-up to Ronnie O'Sullivan" is uncited
  • Cited Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 20:22, 14 October 2020 (UTC)
• 2007-2011:"He opened the 2009–10 season with two first round defeats" not verified by source
  • Removed Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 20:22, 14 October 2020 (UTC)
• 2007-2011:"scoring six breaks of over 40 in those five frames." not verified by source
  • Removed Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 20:22, 14 October 2020 (UTC)
• 2007-2011:"a repeat of the previous year's final" - doesn't feel like a "repeat" if there is a different winner. Maybe "rematch"? (I'm open to being told that "repeat" is right.)
  • A repeat of the match, not the score. I can change if you'd like. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 20:22, 14 October 2020 (UTC)
    • It's fine as is. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 11:49, 15 October 2020 (UTC)
• 2007-2011:"played some of his best snooker of the season" seems a little beyond what's in the source. Maybe substitute with an attributed quote about his standard of play, or with details of breaks etc?
  • I'll just say he won four to win. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 20:22, 14 October 2020 (UTC)
• 2007-2011:"£150,000 winner's cheque" not verified by source
  • Removed Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 20:22, 14 October 2020 (UTC)
• 2007-2011:"Selby started the season by winning the non-ranking Wuxi Classic.." I don't think "started the season" is right. He competed in the Players Tour Championship 2011/2012 – Event 1, for example.
• 2011–12 season:"He continued his form at the Shanghai Masters, where he won his second major ranking event of the season" - suggest deleting "He continued his form at the" as the 2011 Australian Goldfields Open was between these; and deleting "of the season" as (according to the source) this was his second ranking title, after the 2008 Welsh Open.
  • Reworded. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 20:53, 14 October 2020 (UTC)
• 2011–12 season:"making him the ninth player to hold the top spot and the first to do so without having previously won the World Championship" not verified by source
  • Removed Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 20:53, 14 October 2020 (UTC)
• 2011–12 season:"for which he declared himself fit the week before the start of the event" not verified by source
  • Removed Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 20:53, 14 October 2020 (UTC)
• 2011–12 season:Despite this disappointment, he was guaranteed to end the season ranked number one following Judd Trump's early exit from the World Championship." - I don't think that this is verified by the source, which is the post-championship ranking list.
  • Reworded Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 20:53, 14 October 2020 (UTC)

• 2012–13 season:"ironically"? why?
  • No idea. Removed Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 20:59, 14 October 2020 (UTC)
    • (That was because it was Hawkins who had knocked him out in round 1 of world championship, Selby's last match before he took time off to recover from neck injury. As soon as he got back into the ring, he met Hawkins again. Interesting but hardly ironic!) Rodney Baggins (talk) 14:36, 17 October 2020 (UTC)
• 2012–13 season:"breezed past" is somewhat informal language
  • Changed to whitewashed. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 20:59, 14 October 2020 (UTC)
• 2012–13 season:None of the para starting "Selby lost his world number one spot..." seems to be supported by the source other than that Selby defeated Murphy 106-6 in the UK Championship final.
  • 106-6? Is Joe Davis back? I've cited the drop in position. I've also cited the results. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 20:59, 14 October 2020 (UTC)
• 2012–13 season:"Selby then went on to win his third Masters title, beating Stuart Bingham 6–5 from 1–5 behind in the first round, Mark Williams 6–1 in the quarter-finals, and Graeme Dott 6–5 from 1–4 and 4–5 down in the semi-finals." is uncited
  • Cited. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 21:03, 14 October 2020 (UTC)

• 2013–14 season:The Yixing Open was before the Wuxi Classic.
  • Reworded Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 21:03, 14 October 2020 (UTC)
• 2013–14 season:"He defeated Alan McManus 5–1 in the quarter-finals of the World Open, and Marco Fu 6–4 in the semi-finals" not verified by source.
  • Ref added Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 13:04, 15 October 2020 (UTC)
• 2013–14 season:"Selby defeated Michael White 10–9, Ali Carter 13–9, and Alan McManus 13–5" not verified by source.
  • Ref added Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 13:04, 15 October 2020 (UTC)
• 2013–14 season:"for the past two years" not verified by source.
  • Added ref. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 13:04, 15 October 2020 (UTC)

• 2014–15 season:"This was the first time he had ever lost a deciding frame at the Masters, having previously won 11" not verified by source used; reusing the source about Masters deciding frames from the 2013–14 season would cover this.
  • Done Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 13:04, 15 October 2020 (UTC)
• 2014–15 season:"He then beat Stephen Maguire 6–2 in the semi-finals to reach his first ranking final of the season." not verified by source
  • Removed Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 13:04, 15 October 2020 (UTC)
• 2014–15 season:"Suggest rewording or removing "He therefore had two statistics against him"
  • Ya, tis cruft. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 13:04, 15 October 2020 (UTC)
• 2014–15 season:"fourth year in a row" not verified by source but possibly justified as his top ranking is in the coverage of the previous three seasons. Or could use this later source.
  • Added Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 13:04, 15 October 2020 (UTC)

• 2015–16 season:"defeated Neil Robertson 6–4 in the quarter-finals of the International Championship to reach his first semi-final of the season," not verified by source
  • Done Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 13:23, 15 October 2020 (UTC)
• 2015–16 season:"He did not drop a frame in reaching the third round of the UK Championship" not verified by source
• 2015–16 season:"eliminated Dechawat Poomjaeng and Matthew Selt both 6–1," not verified by source
  • Added a source for this and the bit above. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 13:23, 15 October 2020 (UTC)
• 2015–16 season:"missing out on the opportunity to defend his 2015 China Open title" is uncited
  • Removed Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 13:23, 15 October 2020 (UTC)
• 2015–16 season:"he beat Robert Milkins 10–6, Sam Baird 13–11, and Kyren Wilson 13–8," not verified by source
  • Added ref.Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 13:23, 15 October 2020 (UTC)
• 2015–16 season:"successful snooker" could do with explanation or cuegloss linking.
  • Linked. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 13:23, 15 October 2020 (UTC)

• 2016–17 season:Looks like the RKG source is a copyvio of this - amend to WPBSA source, and reword "Selby made seven breaks over 50 while Ding managed a top run of just 47" which is a borrowed phrase.
  • reworded Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 13:29, 15 October 2020 (UTC)
• 2016–17 season:"followed by a more routine 6–2 semi-final victory over Shaun Murphy" not verified by source; remove "more routine" if applicable
  • I have removed entirely. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 13:29, 15 October 2020 (UTC)
• 2016–17 season:"No one came close to beating Selby as he progressed through to the semi-finals of the World Championship. In his quarter-final match, he heavily defeated Marco Fu 13–3 with a session to spare." is uncited
  • Cited, and reworded. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 13:29, 15 October 2020 (UTC)

• 2017–18 season: "started the season" not verified by source.
  • Reworded. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 20:55, 16 October 2020 (UTC)
• 2017–18 season: "He suffered another quarter-final defeat at the Shanghai Masters, losing 3–5 against 2011 finalist Mark Williams." is uncited
  • removed Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 20:55, 16 October 2020 (UTC)
• 2017–18 season:"(only the second time he had done so at the Masters)" not verified by source.
  • Reworded. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 20:55, 16 October 2020 (UTC)
• 2017–18 season: "He retained his China Open title in April, for his third in four years," needs slight rewording.
  • Reworded Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 20:55, 16 October 2020 (UTC)

• 2018–19 season: "Selby's first appearance of the season was at the World Open" - not verified by source; looks like his first appearance of the season may have actually been at the 2018 Haining Open.
  • Reworded Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 21:11, 16 October 2020 (UTC)
• 2018–19 season: "His best run after the China Championship" not verified by source, which is from November 2018
  • Removed this bit. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 21:11, 16 October 2020 (UTC)
• 2018–19 season: "eventual winner Judd Trump" - "eventual winner" not verified by source
  • Removed Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 21:11, 16 October 2020 (UTC)
• 2018–19 season: "Selby qualified for all three 2019 Coral Cup tournaments—the World Grand Prix, the Players Championship, and the Tour Championship—but failed to progress past the quarter-finals in any of them." is uncited
  • Removed - could probably cite, but it's a bit much. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 21:11, 16 October 2020 (UTC)
• 2018–19 season: "having held the position since February 2015" is uncited. (could use this)
  • added Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 21:11, 16 October 2020 (UTC)
• 2018–19 season: "beat Zhao Xintong 10–7 in the first round" not verified by source
  • Source added Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 21:11, 16 October 2020 (UTC)
• 2018–19 season: "2019 world champion" not verified by source
  • removed Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 21:11, 16 October 2020 (UTC)

• 2019–20 season: "At the start of the season," - I don't think this is right, e.g. it looks like he competed at the 2019 Riga Masters before the 2019 International Championship.
  • Reworded Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 21:11, 16 October 2020 (UTC)
• 2019–20 season: "his first Home Nations Series victory" not verified by source
  • removed Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 21:11, 16 October 2020 (UTC)
• 2019–20 season: "Selby's ambition of winning all four Home Nations titles and a £1,000,000 bonus ended in the quarter-finals of the Northern Ireland Open" not verified by source
  • Reworded Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 21:11, 16 October 2020 (UTC)
• 2019–20 season: Consider deleting or rewording "he started with a few unremarkable performances"
  • Removed Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 21:11, 16 October 2020 (UTC)
• 2019–20 season: "He qualified for the 2020 Tour Championship ranked third on the one-year ranking list" is uncited
  • Cited Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 21:11, 16 October 2020 (UTC)
• 2019–20 season: "He beat Yan Bingtao 9–6 in the quarter-finals" not verified by source
  • Added a cite Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 21:11, 16 October 2020 (UTC)
• 2019–20 season: "At the World Championship, Selby defeated debutant Jordan Brown 10–6 in the first round, Noppon Saengkham 13–12 in the last 16 and Neil Robertson 13–7 in the quarter-finals" is uncited
  • Cited Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 21:11, 16 October 2020 (UTC)
• 2019–20 season: "O'Sullivan took a 5–3 lead after the first session, but Selby won the second session to take a 9–7 lead." is uncited
  • Cited Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 21:16, 16 October 2020 (UTC)
• 2019–20 season: "raced into" doesn't seem appropriate
  • Changed.Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 21:16, 16 October 2020 (UTC)

Personal life

• "His 2014 World Championship victory happened on the day that Leicester City celebrated their promotion to the Premier League with an open-top bus parade." is uncited
  • Done Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 20:53, 14 October 2020 (UTC)
• Ref 169 - Leicester Mercury url seems to be problematic (I get a security warning). Archived link verifies the content.
• ("former Irish international pool player" - nationality was not mentioned in source cited, so I added another source in.)
• "24 May 2011" - source says "earlier this month" (May 2011) but does not mention the date.
  • Reworded per source. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 12:33, 15 October 2020 (UTC)

Performance and rankings timeline

• Probably better to have only a live link as the source, rather than an archived one, as this will likely continue to be updated. Or re-archive with a more recent date.
  • No worries. Done Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 17:45, 13 October 2020 (UTC)
• (I checked a sample, no issues found.)

Career finals

• "Below is a list of professional finals won by Selby" - reword as these aren't all wins for him.
  • Reworded Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 17:45, 13 October 2020 (UTC)
• snooker.org source has a "?" in the author's name.
  • Fixed. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 17:45, 13 October 2020 (UTC)

Pro-am finals

• What's the source for the for the 2008 Paul Hunter Classic? (Doesn't seem to be on his snooker.org page)
  • Added a ref Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 17:45, 13 October 2020 (UTC)
• (I checked a sample, no issues found.)

Variant finals

• What's the source for the for the 2010 Six-red World Championship? (Doesn't seem to be on his snooker.org page)
  • Added a ref. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 17:45, 13 October 2020 (UTC)

Pool career

• De-duplink Darren Appleton.
  • Done Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 17:45, 13 October 2020 (UTC)
• "In addition to snooker, Selby is also an adept pool player – specifically blackball and Chinese eight-ball." is uncited
  • Not really though, as we later cite him reaching the world championship finals in both sports. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 19:57, 14 October 2020 (UTC)
    • I'll allow it. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 15:38, 15 October 2020 (UTC)
• I'm not sure that "UK 8 Ball Pool Community" is a reliable source. If not, then this could be used if the word "July" is removed.
  • Done Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 19:57, 14 October 2020 (UTC)

General

• Looks like there are quite a few duplicate links.

  None now! BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 19:23, 19 October 2020 (UTC)

Thanks for your work on the article, and the responses so far, Lee Vilenski and Rodney Baggins. I'll put this on hold for now, and will take another look once you've been through the comments above. I don't see any immediate problems with the lead, I'm just leaving it 'til after other changes are implemented. Regards, BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 12:47, 16 October 2020 (UTC)

• I'm working on the duplinks (and a few genfixes) BennyOnTheLoose, but I've covered the remainder of the points. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 21:16, 16 October 2020 (UTC)

Thanks Lee Vilenski and Rodney Baggins for the further improvements. I think the last pending issue is a reliable source for century breaks. Regards, BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 19:23, 19 October 2020 (UTC)

Now that everything I found has been addressed, I'm happy to pass this for GA. Good work, Lee Vilenski and Rodney Baggins. Regards, BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 19:37, 19 October 2020 (UTC)

Wow, that's great, thanks Benny. I'll of course carry on making further improvements, including those changes to the lead section that we were discussing the other day. I am well chuffed. Thanks also to Lee for pushing this forward as it would probably have sat in my to do list for another few months otherwise! Let me know if there are any more BLPs you would like to get promoted and I will do what I can to help. Rodney Baggins (talk) 21:12, 19 October 2020 (UTC)

I'm a big Henry fan,so I'd like to workon that, but there is a lot that is required there. I think the talk page lede is very good, but give it a day or two before placing into the article to see what other users might thing. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 21:16, 19 October 2020 (UTC)