Talk:Marvel Tales (comics)

Factual error

" That feature [Marvel Boy RPs] was dropped, along with the page-count, with #17."

No. Marvel Boy was dropped, but the page count remained at 68, including covers. (I just counted #17, and Overstreet says the page count dropped with #34.)

I'll let someone else handle the edit. Dmforcier (talk) 20:53, 17 May 2012 (UTC)

Done. Nice catch. --Tenebrae (talk) 22:34, 17 May 2012 (UTC)

This wiki page seems to be about multiple things that are, apart from their names, in no ways related. 2600:1702:21A0:31B0:A101:78F7:649E:2D8F (talk) 08:51, 1 May 2019 (UTC)

Plan to remove the non-comics from this page

There's already a page for Marvel Science Stories, and I propose to create a separate page for Marvel Tales (1934 magazine). Then I think it would make the most sense to remove the information about those two magazines from this page and replace that text with a hatnote pointing to those articles. Any objections before I make the change? Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 22:30, 3 January 2022 (UTC)

Now done as Marvel Tales and Unusual Stories. I think the best thing to do for disambiguation would be to have a Marvel Tales (disambiguation) page and no primary topic, and will suggest that here soon. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 03:29, 11 January 2022 (UTC)

Proposed move

Are there any objections to moving this article to Marvel Tales (comics)? I would like to create a dab page, Marvel Tales (disambiguation), and have it list this article, Marvel Science Stories, which went under the title Marvel Tales for a couple of issues, and Marvel Tales and Unusual Stories. I don't think any of them are the clear primary topic. If there are no objections, I'll move the article next week. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 12:04, 11 January 2022 (UTC)

Requested move 11 January 2022

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: No consensus. There was discussion below about a possible AFD on one or both of the two articles mentioned, with the RM being held up until that was resolved. However, since the AFD is not yet forthcoming, the RM should be terminated for now. As and when the dust has settled, it can be re-proposed if necessary.  — Amakuru (talk) 16:26, 27 January 2022 (UTC)

---

Marvel Tales → Marvel Tales (comics) – There are two other magazines that Marvel Tales can refer to, currently at Marvel Science Stories (which was titled Marvel Tales for part of its run) and Marvel Tales and Unusual Stories. I think there should be a dab page, and as none of these is clearly the primary topic the dab should be at Marvel Tales, not Marvel Tales (disambiguation), which is where it would have to go now. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 12:19, 11 January 2022 (UTC) — Relisting.  — Amakuru (talk) 11:31, 20 January 2022 (UTC)

• Oppose At least for now, since it's unclear whether either this article or Marvel Tales and Unusual Stories are individually notable. There's no point moving articles under the assumption they are notable when they might not be. This article might just need to be redirected to one of the others. If it can be proven that both are notable I wouldn't be opposed to the proposal, but only then._{ZXCVBNM (TALK)} 08:13, 21 January 2022 (UTC)

  I don't follow your argument. If either is not notable, an article should not exist. Do you mean if we discover one is more notable than the other? Then yes, Marvel Tales should go the more notable one. The problem is that currently there is no dab page, so we'd have to make Marvel Tales (disambiguation), which would only make sense if we assume the comics one is more notable, which is what you say we don't know. To put it another way, you seem to be saying we don't know what the primary topic is, but this proposed move is what one would do if there were no primary topic. Can you clarify? Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 11:43, 21 January 2022 (UTC)

  My clarification is; if this article is not notable, it should not be moved, just turned into a dab page or delete-and-redirected. Right now I am operating under the assumption it's not, unless proven otherwise. Even if it is, the other Marvel Tales article would also need to be notable for this article to be moved.

  So the question is, what are the WP:THREE sources that prove that the Marvel Comics "Marvel Tales" is actually worthy of encyclopedic note? Otherwise it should, at most, become a disambiguation for the other two. _{ZXCVBNM (TALK)} 23:52, 21 January 2022 (UTC)

  OK, now I follow you. I will post a note at the comics project asking for knowledgeable editors there to comment here. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 02:02, 22 January 2022 (UTC)

  Zxcvbnm, I've posted a note. If there's no response, would it make sense for you to take this article to AfD before we close the move request? Then we'll get a ruling on notability which will let us settle this move question. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 17:41, 22 January 2022 (UTC)

  Yes, probably. In a search for sources I couldn't really find any of significant note. If this page gets deleted, the discussion is a bit moot. _{ZXCVBNM (TALK)} 22:38, 22 January 2022 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

AfD?

Zxcvbnm, are you going to AfD this? If not, I'll go ahead and make the disambiguation page for the pages as they now are, with this one as the primary target. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 18:41, 27 January 2022 (UTC)

@Mike Christie: Alright, I listed it up at AfD. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 19:06, 27 January 2022 (UTC)

I also noticed that the user who initially created the page is now banned, so it is dubious whether they ever bothered to make sure it was notable in the first place. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 19:11, 27 January 2022 (UTC)

@Zxcvbnm: - Tenebrae's banning was an epic, dramatic affair that had to do with an undisclosed COI and self-promotion over the course of about 10 years. However, part of the reason it lasted as long as it did was because he did a lot of productive work unrelated to that COI. I'm comfortable vouching for most (if not all) of his contributions in the comic book field. FWIW. Argento Surfer (talk) 13:38, 4 February 2022 (UTC)

Three articles

It appears the AfD on this article is likely to be closed as keep, so just posting this here as a suggestion to any interested editors: I think this article should be three articles, assuming all three comics are independently notable. There's no reason for any of the three mentioned here to be covered in the same article as any of the others; that's what disambiguation pages are for. The material on the Atlas Comics title should probably be moved to Marvel Mystery Comics with a redirect from something like Marvel Tales (Atlas Comics), but the others would have their own pages, I'd guess. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 03:37, 1 February 2022 (UTC)

Requested move 3 February 2022

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: page moved. wbm1058 (talk) 00:33, 7 March 2022 (UTC)

---

Marvel Tales → Marvel Tales (comics) – This move was requested recently but deferred because of the AfD. The AfD has concluded as keep, so to disambiguate between this article, Marvel Tales and Unusual Stories, and Marvel Science Stories, for which Marvel Tales was an alternative title, we need a disambiguation page. I think it should be at Marvel Tales, hence this move request. If one of the possible targets is a primary article for the dab, then we would create Marvel Tales (disambiguation) instead, but I don't think any of these are good candidates for the primary target. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 23:19, 3 February 2022 (UTC)

• Oppose Again, I would oppose this since Marvel Science Stories was only called "Marvel Tales" for two issues, making it not primary and a hatnote would be better to distinguish it from this one. Marvel Tales and Unusual Stories is the only one that could potentially lay claim to being an equivalent primary topic, but it is unclear if that is notable. If that could have its notability proven without a shadow of a doubt, I would support. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 23:23, 3 February 2022 (UTC)

  I thought your opinion was that the topic of this article was not notable? Are you saying that the AfD convinced you it's a valid primary topic, or is it more that you're unconvinced of the notability of Marvel Tales and Unusual Stories? I completely agree that Marvel Science Stories can't be the primary topic, by the way. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 23:26, 3 February 2022 (UTC)

  I'm unsure if the AfD convinced me, but I'm not going to fight further about it if the consensus as determined by the AfD is that it's notable. I am, however, unconvinced about the notability of the other one. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 13:42, 4 February 2022 (UTC)

  I expect to take Marvel Tales and Unusual Stories to FAC in the near future, and am expanding it and adding sources now, so you might have another look at it. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 12:50, 5 February 2022 (UTC)

• Hatnote - I have no strong feeling, but I think a hat note for all three would suffice. Going by page views from December (before the AfD), there were 2 hits for MT&US, 8 for MSS, and 18 for MT. If you assume half of the readers of MT&US or MSS came to MT by mistake, that's 5 readers who were at a disservice over the course of a month. Even with that generous assumption, more than half the (light) traffic was for MT. I don't see why we wouldn't keep the article name with the publication that used it the longest. Argento Surfer (talk) 13:23, 4 February 2022 (UTC)

  I guess hatnotes are fine if we keep this article as is, but as I suggest in the section above, I think it ought to be split into at least two, and perhaps three, articles. We don't split articles on magazines into two articles just because they change their names, if they're clearly the same article -- e.g. Astounding Stories and Analog Science Fiction and Fact are dealt with in the same article. Shouldn't the Atlas Comics material go into Marvel Mystery Comics? That would give us four articles, even if we keep the other two in one article. At four articles a dab page would be needed. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 13:32, 4 February 2022 (UTC)

  I would Support 1) moving the Atlas material to Marvel Mystery Comics 2) renaming this article Marvel Tales (comics) 3) making Marvel Tales a DAB and 4) removing the flipbook information from this article and relocating it to the DAB. Argento Surfer (talk) 13:46, 4 February 2022 (UTC)

• Support the approach Argento Surfer outlines above. Mtminchi08, you did a lot of the work in response to the AfD; what's your take? Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 14:58, 4 February 2022 (UTC)

  Support Argento Surfer's proposed idea. Mtminchi08 (talk) 18:31, 4 February 2022 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Per the above close, I have moved the Atlas Comics material to Marvel Mystery Comics. Argento Surfer, Mtminchi08, I'm less clear on the best way to deal with the flipbook information; could one of you take care of that? Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 11:16, 7 March 2022 (UTC)

I think the flip book series should stay right where it is, at least until considerably more content is added about the topic. Both series have in common that they are primarily Spider-Man reprints. – wbm1058 (talk) 14:36, 7 March 2022 (UTC)

After the content split (step 1) above), which was actually done after I moved the page and disambiguated, I found that I needed to do further disambiguation for about 40 pages. I don't think the 1964–2007 reprints should be viewed as primary over the original material at Marvel Tales (1949–1957). This title is incomplete disambiguation and should be further moved to a title that clearly indicates the scope, which is the 1964–2007 reprints. – wbm1058 (talk) 17:37, 8 March 2022 (UTC)

Thanks for doing all that clean up. I know nothing about the comics side and wouldn't be comfortable making those edits; my expertise is limited to the 1934 magazine. Maybe leave a note at WT:COMICS asking for someone to help out? Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 18:01, 8 March 2022 (UTC)