Talk:Mary Peltola

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Move to Mary Peltola?

She seems to best known now for her run for Alaska's At-Large congressional seat in 2022 and she is going by Mary Peltola.https://www.ktoo.org/2022/04/11/mary-peltola-us-house-candidate/ Should it be moved? 24.69.133.124 (talk) 17:52, 19 May 2022 (UTC)

"Best known now" is a huge red flag. We shouldn't be in the business of being a social media mirror, regardless of whether a handful of news sites are playing along at a particular point in time due to the nature of a particular political campaign. The basis for her notability is in her past activities as an elected official, where she was known by multiple other names. As she was Mary Kapsner during the majority of her time in the legislature, that's how she's best known overall. RadioKAOS / Talk to me, Billy / Transmissions 04:32, 20 May 2022 (UTC)

But the title of the article is Mary Sattler, not Mary Kapsner, so that completely goes against your point. The question is is Mary Peltola best known for her campaign for U.S House or for her time as a State Representative. I would argue the former --24.69.133.124 (talk) 08:12, 28 May 2022 (UTC)

In the course of this discussion, it was concerning to me that 1) you're making this request as an IP editor, rather than someone who has identified themselves as an established member of this community, and 2) you're appearing to take the position that Wikipedia exists as a reflection of current events and current headlines and not a historical record that takes the subject's entire history into consideration (looks like you've done this before). As a result, I did a little digging. A check of the FEC website reveals her to be a client of Ship Creek Group. Over the past nine years, there's been evidence of significant IP-based editing activity favoring clients of that company and clients of the company's principals prior to the company's founding. Alaska politics is not a high-traffic area of the encyclopedia, so this is noticeable when it occurs. Considering that, I hope you're familiar with the dim view Wikipedia takes towards conflict of interest.

As to your most recent comments, it appears the article was created in 2008 as "Mary Nelson", reflecting the name she used at the time without regard to her notability or renown as a whole. It was moved to its current title in 2011, apparently based on news coverage she received as a member of the Bethel city council referring to her as Mary Sattler. Skipping ahead to the present, from what I've read, she only began firmly using "Mary Peltola" in the context of this campaign. She's wavered back and forth between "Mary Sattler Peltola" (still the name of her Facebook page as of right this minute) and "Mary Peltola" quite a bit. Inexplicably, she has two separate entries on the 100 Years of Alaska's Legislature site, reflecting both previous married names. The first entry is titled Mary Sattler Kapsner, the second Mary Sattler-Nelson. Those pages were titled "Mary Kapsner" and "Mary Nelson" respectively when the site was launched in 2013. The common denominator in those changes is the addition of "Sattler".

You asked if she is "best known for her campaign for U.S. House". The election hasn't concluded yet, so all she is in that context is one of 48 candidates. If she makes it to the top four, you may have a case. In a strictly Wikipedian sense, consensus has been repeatedly established favoring the view that political figures are notable for holding certain offices and not notable for merely running for those offices. The only thing distinguishing her from most of the other 47 candidates is the fact that she's raising and spending money. Is that what's motivating this? RadioKAOS / Talk to me, Billy / Transmissions 06:53, 31 May 2022 (UTC)

Conspiracy theory much? I am not connected to Ship Creek Group at all or even know what you are talking about. I honestly don't care about the title of the page, just thought it should be up for discussion since hardly anyone knows her based on her previously known name. But it seems like a big deal to you (seems like you possibly have your own biases), so I'll drop it. 24.69.133.124 (talk) 21:05, 16 June 2022 (UTC)

References

Requested move 17 June 2022

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved. (closed by non-admin page mover) — Ceso femmuin mbolgaig mbung, mellohi! (投稿) 15:58, 24 June 2022 (UTC)

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Mary Sattler → Mary Sattler Peltola – I'm not gonna comment on the above's suspicions of conflict of interest and I don't reject his analysis above but regardless, now that, as RadioKAOS mentioned, she has now been called by DDHQ to proceed top-4 runoff/general election. I think it's fair to say that she's more notable by the surname "Peltola". Other than the sources listed above, there are also CNN, Roll Call, and many other local news outlets using the surname "Peltola" under WP:COMMONNAME. Not to mention that the Alaska Division of Elections used "Mary S. Peltola" and an FEC filing listed her full name only as "Peltola, Mary" suggesting that she might've had her name legally changed per WP:NAMECHANGES. I don't object to the title being "Mary Sattler Peltola" for having "a historical record that takes the subject's entire history into consideration" but I wanna hear others' opinions on this first. —twotwofourtysix^{(My talk page and contributions)} 04:06, 17 June 2022 (UTC)

• Support, for the reasons I stated above (notability, recognizability, and the fact that national media are reporting her name as such) before bizarrely being accused of a conflict of interest. I would be surprised if she was known by anyone as Mary Sattler besides Alaska state politicos. 24.69.133.124 (talk) 01:47, 18 June 2022 (UTC)
• Weak support: If the objective is to achieve a middle ground, that's fine. Past history with numerous other RMs across the encyclopedia shows that people will continue to agitate until they get their way and call that "consensus". It's crucial to point out two things, however. This project is so, so fond of throwing around the Jimmy Wales quote about "the sum of all human knowledge" to promote itself. We can't credibly claim that means anything when someone who hasn't established themselves as a member of the community (yet appears to be very adept in navigating the site's processes, all the while feigning indignance about why an established member of the community would view this as a huge red flag) comes along and insists this be done based solely on current events and current headlines instead of the whole of the subject, to the point of attracting others willing to play along. WP:NOTNEWS is policy. If it weren't for her past history in politics, we wouldn't be having this discussion, as the article would be swiftly deleted as promotional spam. Since there is a prior basis of notability which renders that moot, there's WP:5P2, also a cornerstone of the encyclopedia that appears to be disregarded here. The timing of this move is so highly suspicious, it calls NPOV into question, considering it will aid in the promotion of her campaign at the exact same time that political forces are coalescing behind her. RadioKAOS / Talk to me, Billy / Transmissions 08:26, 18 June 2022 (UTC)
• Support per WP:COMMONNAME and WP:NAMECHANGES (go by name on legal documents). Stroopwafels (talk) 18:41, 20 June 2022 (UTC)
• Support per WP:COMMONNAME, most recent news sources (as in 2022 Alaska's at-large congressional district special election) refer to her as Peltola. —CX Zoom[he/him] ^{(let's talk • {C•X})} 08:12, 21 June 2022 (UTC)
• Strong support her own FEC filing lists her name as Mary Peltola. I'm okay with keeping Sattler in the title, but excluding Peltola seems nonsensical. --Woko Sapien (talk) 15:27, 24 June 2022 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article title again

There was no discussion and no consensus for either recent move, both done in contravention of prior consensus reached through discussion. The message you're sending is that the conventions of this website mean absolutely nothing and our only purpose is to slavishly parrot whatever agenda is being pushed today by MSM news editors. You really ought to pay attention to the long process involved at Hillary Clinton (which, BTW, was also unduly influenced by election results in the end). Some of you are showing your true commitment to NPOV (read: none) by not affording this subject the same courtesy. #MakeOrwellFictionAgain RadioKAOS / Talk to me, Billy / Transmissions 02:13, 1 September 2022 (UTC)

Parking links here for possible future use

• https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-2006-apr-02-adna-juneau2-story.html
• https://books.google.com/books?id=XdkZb4tiIZUC&pg=PA282&lpg=PA282&dq=%22Jonathan+Kapsner%22+bethel&source=bl&ots=pgaRDnFJ76&sig=ACfU3U0X1fE42Cs1YpT0sOJq2Qnp8LVcgA&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwingPnx1_L5AhX-E1kFHc5rDqU4ChDoAXoECAIQAw#v=onepage&q=%22Jonathan%20Kapsner%22%20bethel&f=false

KConWiki (talk) 03:46, 1 September 2022 (UTC)

Early life section is racist.

The section begins by defining her by saying 'A YU'Pik'. No other bio for a Representative I have seen open this way. As it no other bio opens 'A frenchman', 'An asian', or 'A Jew'. I get everyone is excited about learning more about her ancestors but please re-arrange her ethnicity, it's current position communicates racism. 2600:100E:B026:E28E:8C7D:290A:F32C:7AF6 (talk) 13:15, 6 September 2022 (UTC)

Electoral history and WAI/WAID

Seems like currently the parties abbreviated as WAID and WAI have no pages on Wikipedia, they link to 106.5 FM (WAID) and the Web Accessibility Initiative respectively. I did a bit of a cursory glance at what the parties may be, but to no avail. Someone more familiar with Alaska politics please illuminate me! This would probably help with re-linking the articles to the appropriate political party pages rather than to a radio station and an effort to improve the internet for individuals with disabilities. Ornithoptera (talk) 20:23, 12 September 2022 (UTC)

@Ornithoptera: See here, it's a stand-in for "Western Alaska Independent Democrat", apparently. —twotwofourtysix^{(talk || edits)} 11:07, 13 September 2022 (UTC)

@Twotwofourtysix: thank you so much for your help in helping me find out what WAI/WAID is! I'm going to tentatively re-link those portions of the article to the Independent Democrat article unless there are any objections or if those pages are better suited for its own article. Ornithoptera (talk) 19:37, 14 September 2022 (UTC)

Oops, I'm not entirely sure how to edit the Election box template so that it can link WAI/WAID to the Independent Democrat article, since as it stands both WAI/WAID both link to the incorrect articles. If anyone is more well versed in the proper procedure in doing so please let me know or go ahead and link those pages! Ornithoptera (talk) 19:43, 14 September 2022 (UTC)

Move name back to Mary Sattler Peltola

I think moving the article's name back to Mary Sattler Peltola might be worth discussing seeing how her official U.S. House website she changed her name as such. The name change is also noted here Shapeshifting: Congresswoman Peltola changes her official congressional website name to reflect her original ‘Sattler’. Probably worth discussing again. TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 16:44, 11 October 2022 (UTC)

@TDKR Chicago 101 We go by common name, and she seems most commonly referred to as "Mary Peltola" in news media, etc. SecretName101 (talk) 22:37, 21 September 2023 (UTC)

Member or Member-elect?

@Muboshgu: I hope this will soon become a moot point, but I think you're mistaken about the 20 Amendment, which states: SECTION 1. The terms of the President and Vice President shall end at noon on the 20th day of January, and the terms of Senators and Representatives at noon on the 3d day of January, of the years in which such terms would have ended if this article had not been ratified; and the terms of their successors shall then begin. (my bolding) Best wishes, YoPienso (talk) 22:32, 6 January 2023 (UTC)

Also note, "The House recreates itself after every election--pending bills die, committee work is shelved, and new Members take their seats." Find under "Current Practice" here. YoPienso (talk) 22:34, 6 January 2023 (UTC)

@Yopienso:, the ending is the relevant part here, and the terms of their successors shall then begin. – Muboshgu (talk) 22:39, 6 January 2023 (UTC)

The New York Times could be wrong, but I think they're right on this: "Since its 434 members cannot be sworn in until a speaker is chosen, no one is officially a representative by title. Not Hal Rogers ... Nancy Pelosi ... Hakeem Jeffries ... And not any of the 74 freshman lawmakers ... All are, technically, representatives-elect." YoPienso (talk) 22:42, 6 January 2023 (UTC)

@Muboshgu: Thankfully, it is now a moot point, yet worth examining for future reference.

In the wee hours of Jan. 7, EST, Speaker McCarthy clearly called the Congress "Members-elect" before he swore them in and "Members" after he swore them in. He said, "The Members-elect will rise," and later, "All Members-elect will raise their right hand . . ." and finally, "Congratulations. You are now Members of the 118th Congress."

The official publication, House Practice: A Guide to the Rules, Precedents and Procedures of the House states: "Until a Member-elect has subscribed to the oath, he does not enjoy all the rights and prerogatives of a Member of Congress." Best wishes, YoPienso (talk) 07:16, 7 January 2023 (UTC)