Talk:Marzban

still

I am pretty sure we still have Mazbans and this wasnt just a Sassanid rank? --K a s h ^{Talk | email} 20:43, 2 June 2006 (UTC)

So do we. Hell the Armenian word for province is MARZ. It was created by Sassanids though.--Eupator 20:44, 2 June 2006 (UTC)

Marzban might mean something like guardian of the border (although M. Zakheri beliefs this is a mistaken Arab translation of the word) but there were marzbanan all over the Sasanid empire, not just at the borders. Their rank in the army was just as varied as the size and importance of the different territories governed by them. Their duties in their terrritories are a matter of dispute, some regarding them as mere representatives of the Sasanid monarch at the courts of the local princes, others as bureacrats with vast military power, but wielded only in a limited group of provinces. Most experts seem to regard them as responsible for (part of) the local levies, and indeed Tabari and Baladhuri make them local military commanders. The argbadan weren't the only functionaries competing with the marzbanan, there were the dihqanan, padgospanan, spahbadan, shahrijaran, and what not. What offends me in your article is the the rather outdated habit of comparing phenomena of medieval Europe with those of pre-islamic Iran (margraves, castles). The Sasanid empire was a far more centralised state than the kingdoms of feudal Europe. Goverment functions and landownership were always connected and could indeed be inherited, but unlike in Europe, in principle they always could be reclaimed by the monarch, to be given to someone else. The different titles that have come down to us seem to reflect the hierarchy and functions of a centralised military / civil bureaucracy, not the aristocratic titles of the "privatised goverment" of medieval Europe. The nature of ancient Iran is a fascinating puzzle that will not be resolved by bashing the pieces into a European format. (Said KoechlyRuestow)--87.212.28.230 20:11, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

Requested move 26 August 2017

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: not moved DrStrauss talk 17:53, 5 September 2017 (UTC)

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Marzban → Marzbān – Dispute about whether to use the macron. Anthony Appleyard (talk) 22:37, 26 August 2017 (UTC)

• @Colonies Chris and HistoryofIran: Queried move request. Anthony Appleyard (talk) 22:38, 26 August 2017 (UTC)

The macron is widely used in Iranian articles. Many similar articles use the macron. See {{Military of the Sasanian Empire sidebar}} for example. Even the ones that don't have the macron in the title do use it in the template and in the lede (see Navbed, for example). And many atlases of the Middle East including the Times World Atlas put macrons on vowels in transcribed placenames. I'm trying to bring a bit of consistency. Colonies Chris (talk) 22:44, 26 August 2017 (UTC)

Oppose: Biggest contributor to Iranian-related articles here; The macron isn't widely used in Iranian articles, you linked one Template, which was recently changed without any form for discussion as well. Yes we sometimes tend to use the macron in the lead only (so people get an idea of how it sounds, also I created the Navbed article btw), but that's it, we don't use it in the name of the article itself. This is the opposite of bringing consistency by a huge margin. --HistoryofIran (talk) 13:43, 27 August 2017 (UTC)

Oppose: scientific transliterations often use diacritics, but there is no need for any non-scholar to distinguish between a long a and a short a; as a general rule, Wikipedia (as well as historical literature in general) tends to avoid diacritics in titles and articles. Unless a specific case requires it, it is always better to leave them out. Constantine ✍ 15:10, 27 August 2017 (UTC)

• Publications omitting the macron, may be caused by physical/electronic inability to make vowel letters with macrons, rather than by choice. Anthony Appleyard (talk) 11:03, 28 August 2017 (UTC)

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

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