Talk:Master of Advanced Studies

Delete paragraph

The following paragraph is lacking quotes, is written in terrible English and most of all wrong. An MAS is not equivalent to an M.A. or MSc degree as this section would suggest! It is also not a "common" post-graduate degree in Switzerland.

"In the French-speaking universities in Switzerland the DEA, now Master of Advanced Studies was equivalent to the Master's degree in the English-speaking countries, and it was a one to two-year degree taken after a Licence (4-years Swiss graduate degree). It generally consisted of a number of courses, with examinations and grades, followed by research in a scientific laboratory. The students would then write a substantial thesis about the scientific work they did, and defend this thesis in front of a committee. The Master of Advanced Studies remains a common post-graduate degree in Switzerland." — Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.203.77.146 (talk) 10:05, 27 December 2012 (UTC)

I agree. I can find no support that a French "Master of Advanced Studies" research degree ever existed in Switzerland. What is the successor of the diplôme d'études approfondies (DEA) and diplôme d'études superieures spécialisées (DESS) in Switzerland? Jawadbek (talk) 04:38, 22 January 2013 (UTC)

Merge with Master of Advanced Study

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.

To merge Master of Advanced Study into Master of Advanced Studies

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In August 2011 a separate article for Master of Advanced Study was created. The link refers to the Master of Advanced Study as a North American degree and the Master of Advanced Studies as a European degree. Actually both titles are used in North America and in Europe. The description of the Master of Advanced Study does not indicate a significant difference from a Master of Advanced Studies. It appears that only the names are slightly different, as are the abbreviations. This is common in academic degrees which are covered by a single Wikipedia article see for example [Master of Arts] and [Master of Science]. Multiple pages violate WP:DABCONCEPT in that the subject matter is susceptible to being discussed in a single article. Jawadbek (talk) 15:38, 27 February 2012 (UTC)

I agree, they should be merged.--88.111.115.72 (talk) 11:08, 15 July 2014 (UTC)

Merge, agree on the grounds that they refer to the same topic. Klbrain (talk) 21:59, 25 April 2016 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Title (for addressing a DEA holder)

Presumably since this is not a full doctorate, a holder is not addressed as Dr.? This information would be helpful to have this kind of information in an article of this sort. --A12n (talk) 22:58, 29 March 2008 (UTC)

Not a full doctorate

The DEA is usually the first part of a doctoral program (like a MPhil or MREs). One does not become a "Dr." until the full doctorate is complete. But, technically, the DEA is a "first doctoral diploma" but not a "doctorate". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.234.213.224 (talk) 22:00, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

Also : in France, no one but the "medical doctors" are addressed as Dr., even in an academical environment. 88.178.189.194 (talk) —Preceding undated comment was added at 09:33, 22 October 2008 (UTC).

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• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/19990222142812/http://www.ucop.edu/acadinit/mas.html to http://www.ucop.edu/acadinit/mas.html
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20120325011657/http://students.ucsd.edu/finances/fees/registration/spring-2012/MAS-registration-fees-static.html to http://students.ucsd.edu/finances/fees/registration/spring-2012/MAS-registration-fees-static.html
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20090920071420/http://www.topia.fr/images/documents/lexical_of_european_doctorates.pdf to http://www.topia.fr/images/documents/lexical_of_european_doctorates.pdf
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Very surprising to read this...

MAS or Master of Advanced Studies are as written in the beginning of this article : "Master of Advanced Studies programs may be non-consecutive programs tailored for "specific groups of working professionals with well-defined needs for advanced degree work"[1] or advanced research degrees"

Indeed it is very much what a MAS is and in France a MAS is this. But... now the DEA thing is just very very strange ... DEA has never been translated by any serious academic source as a MAS, nor by the French law DEA was the equivalent of a current Master II in Research (Master 2 Recherche) according to the French Law.

It is just very unrespectful to read this (with of course no source): " Entrance in DEA programs was permitted only to holders of the maîtrise universitaire [fr], a master's degree (the BOLOGNA PROCESS NEVER TRANSLATE MAITRISE IN MASTER). Given the thesis requirement, the DEA is considered higher level than the North American "All But Dissertation" or ABD status within a doctoral program or a master of philosophy (M.Phil.) (SAYS WHO ? CERTAINLY NOT THE FRENCH LAW), but lower level than a PhD. Holders of a DEA were considered to have acquired the theoretical technical knowledge equivalent to a PhD (SAYS WHO ? ), albeit with less practical research experience. As a result, DEA graduates would often enter the job market without the need to do a PhD (IT IS VERY STRANGE THEN THAT ALL THE JOBS IN THE ACADEMIA WHICH NECESSITATED PHDs WERE NOT OPEN TO THEM), and be offered much more attractive jobs and conditions, compared to master's degree graduates (SAYS WHO ? NOT THE FRENCH NATIONAL STATISTICS).

Now the sources are very weak : 10 is a PDF made from an association that has no academic accreditation of any sort 11 Is a French Article from Le Parisien that just states that : DEA (master II in research) is necessary to do a PhD and the DESS (Master II Pro) won't get you in a PhD. 12 Is a non-existing source and source and in 2002 ... DEA did not exist anymore (Bologna Process started in 1998) 13 is a extract of a the French Education Code, DEA is nowhere in this document, nor the fact that it was replaced by the Master II in research or anything like that. It explains the process of a PhD in France in 2006... 8 years after the implementation of the Bologna Process.

Sorry by seriously this allegations are really insulting for younger generations Everywhere in the world it might be fun to insult younger generations who work and sacrifice to study and get a Master degree. The job market and the education systems make it harder and harder to study. It is quite insulting for younger generations to read that DEA and PhD are the same, that Master II is lower than DEA etc.

IIIrd vs IInd cycle Saying that DEA is "third cycle" and Master II is "second cycle" is the French educational system is comparing two different cycles systems that have been deeply transformed and where the people who had started a DEA just before the beginning of the Bologna process earned... a Master II in research by the Universities at the end of the year (1999). — Preceding unsigned comment added by Marsupial22 (talk • contribs) 00:33, 19 June 2022 (UTC)

Serious sources for DEA

INSEE in English : https://www.insee.fr/en/metadonnees/definition/c2147 Franchophone source from an African University stating that DEA is now Master II: https://www.upac.info/index.php/categories-1-layout/item/498-souvenir-du-banc-a-la-craie-dans-les-memes-salles-de-cours — Preceding unsigned comment added by Marsupial22 (talk • contribs) 00:39, 19 June 2022 (UTC)

ABOUT DEA, DESS and PhD in the French system

DESS was the diplôme d'études supérieures spécialisées (DESS) is was also a Bac+5 degree and was also part of the IIIrd cycle. Actually PhD (doctorat and DEA and DESS were all part of IIIrd cycle) because the IIIrd cycle (anything after Bac+4) was not what is now the IIIrd cycle (the Phd only).

Saying that DEA was the equivalent of the current MAS would mean that Master II research in France = Master of Advanced Studies when the MAS is executive oriented when the DEA was a consecutive degree for research careers — Preceding unsigned comment added by Marsupial22 (talk • contribs) 02:30, 19 June 2022 (UTC)