Talk:Matilda of Tuscany

Untitled

"Everywhere else§ I find her year of death to be 1115 - I've changed it. -- Robodoc.at 13:45, 13 July 2005 (UTC)

Merovingian ancestry

Out of curiosity, can we have a source/reference for the claim that she was a descendent of a Merovingian king? Djnjwd 18:19, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

Not provable, so removed. Srnec 05:41, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

I seem to know she was of Longobard stock, though I can't quote a source. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.33.159.42 (talk) 10:58, 6 May 2015 (UTC)

Mathilde of Canossa

Please note and check her name was Mathilde not matilda or matilde as everybody can see even on the inscriptions and pictures on this same page. Name was Latin not english or Italian as in 1100 a.D. ther was no italian at all.

She was from Canossa. Canossa is in Emilia-Romagna not in Tuscany. Please check, Canossa is in Reggio Emilia province. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Firedrill (talk • contribs) 23:56, 4 April 2007 (UTC).

She is called Matilda. The original Latin is irrelevant. The article never says Canossa is in Tuscany and Matilda was not born there. Her birthplace is unknown and may have even been Lorraine. Srnec 20:13, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

She may or not be born in Canossa (probably in Mantova), but her Longobard family name is Canossa, from the village of Canossa, her father was Bonifacio from Canossa, her grandfather and so on (since VIII century) were from Canossa, her castle is in Canossa, she was raised and grew up in Canossa, the battle against the emperor henry (she won) was in Canossa, the castle where came the pope and the emperor was Canossa, nowadays in italy her name is Matilde from Canossa, the lands near Canossa nowadays are known by italian decree as Terre Matildiche, her power come from the vassals and rooks on the Appennino Emiliano (not tuscany), her name was Mathilde on all the inscriptions, sculptures, annals biographies and no other name was ever used, She was Longobard mother tongue so was never known as english Matilda or italian Matilde but only as Mathilde her true name given by Lotaringian mother (also in Lotaringian language her name is only possible as Mathilde).

Known Sources are hundreds of books, most relevant is VITA MATHILDIS ( written in 1115 a.D. ) her official biography by DONIZONE PRESBYTERO where she is named Mathilde and she is from Canossa, these are facts with sources. Other notable source is the book by expert Paolo Golinelli (researcher of Medioeval History, university of Verona, prize Accademia dei Lincei, Dipartimento di Discipline Storiche, Artistiche e Geografiche dell’Università degli Studi di Verona),italian title matilde e i canossa nel cuore del medioevo ISBN 887767104-1 .

Themore, her family used as core castle and capital city Canossa (near Reggio Emilia , region of Emilia-Romagna) and sometimes Marengo (near Mantova, in Lombardy), they have never been in tuscany (which city on your unsupported ipothesis would be the core castle and capital town of the Canossa family in tuscany?) Mathilde never lived in Tuscany, her father acquired nobility in Tuscany by politic matters but Mathilde lost the titles in tuscany at a certain point of her life.

Please roll back as soon as possible to Mathilde from Canossa. Firedrill (talk • contribs)

It doesn't matter what she was called. She is called Matilda. End of story. Secondary sources are more important for an encyclopaedia than primary. She ruled Tuscany. "Tuscany" should not be limited to the modern-day province in historical contexts. If you have valuable sourced information to add, you should add it without forcing it to be reverted because you did not cite sources and because you don't follow Wikipedia guidelines. Historical figures are referred to by their modern names in most contexts. Srnec 18:52, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

Yes it's Ok- keep it matilda and keep tuscany; you have the truth and sources (I have cited ) are wrong.
You are right, these sources worth nothing: VITA MATHILDIS ( written in 1115 a.D. ) official biography by DONIZONE PRESBYTERO ,
Paolo Golinelli (researcher of Medioeval History, university of Verona, prize Accademia dei Lincei, Dipartimento di Discipline Storiche, Artistiche e Geografiche dell’Università degli Studi di Verona),italian title matilde e i canossa nel cuore del medioevo ISBN 887767104-1, both are wrong. End of Story.
If you want to learn something, read http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matilde_di_Canossa
Firedrill (talk • contribs)

What about the sources I have that call her Matilda of Tuscany? The facts are: her name in modern English is Matilda and we use modern English for medieval persons (see all her contemporaries: Emperor Henry III, Pope Gregory VII, etc.) and she was the marchioness of Tuscany (that's why she's called "of Tuscany", it has nothing to do with her birthplace). Secondary sources are more important because primary sources require interpretation, which is original research. I would love to add more info from Domnizo in the future and I probably will. Srnec 01:12, 8 April 2007 (UTC)

I live in italy in Mathildic lands, (Terre Mathildiche by italian decree) we live mathildic legend and histories, yours are simply wrong phrases wrong concepts, wrong geography, wrong knowledge, and nothing more, you do not know what you ar talking of, but if you are so powerful, keep tuscany and everything you want with my compliments. If you ever want to learn something from qualified personnel, high university related and high research related people, read from the high quality qualified italian article of Mathilde di Canossa and shy.

Your bad English does not help your case. But I went to this site and it showed what appeared to be an authentic contemporary signum bearing the name "Matilda" (in the lower left corner). Can you explain this? Also, a Google search for "Terre Mathildiche" turns up nothing, while a search for "Terre Matildiche" gives many hits. Who has the right spelling? You do not seem to comprehend my arguments, much less answer them. She ruled Tuscany and Emilia, so there is no problem. As you said, you live legends: I read histories. Srnec 23:47, 8 April 2007 (UTC)

Her name is Mathilde, and she is from Canossa, end.

• you can do read by yourself with your eyes in Vatican city on her true and only monumental sepulture. The picture (I made) in the article show this fact .
• Or you can read her original authentic contemporary biography Vita Mathildis (made by Donizone in 1100's). She appears only as Mathilde of Canossa. No questions on this.

• she had titles in all northern Italy (and in Lorraine);
• she was Countess of: Canossa, Reggio, Modena, Mantova, Brescia e Ferrara (no one in Tuscany);
• she was also Duchess of Spoleto (not Tuscany)
• she also surely acquired Marquisee of Tuscany by political matters, but had lost this title at a certain point of her life. This is a fact.

• She never lived in Tuscany. This is a fact.
• She lived and was born in Canossa. No questions, this is a fact.
• Her castle was in Canossa
• Her power was from Canossa army
• Her court was at Canossa

She ruled Tuscany for a short period, also she ruled all life Canossa, Emilia, Romagna, Lombardia and all Italia at a certain point. Her father, and all before him, were ruling Canossa (not Tuscany), all the family is named: Canossiani (not Tuscanian); the lineage is : Canossa Counts

This is history and facts and references and evidences. You can close your eyes and do what you want, look at website and ignore books, experts, researchers, museums, with my compliments...--- F I R E D R I L L - 22:14, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

This is an English-language wiki. She's called Matilda in English. There are hundreds if not thousands of other examples in this wiki where historical names have been Anglicized. For one example, in the article itself, it's Henry IV, not Heinrich IV or Enrico IV.

And everything else aside, please don't change her name in the titles to references, e.g., the book by Spike and the paper by Eads. Loren Rosen 02:30, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

Matilda actually signed her own documents 'Matilda Dei gratia si quid est' (as one can see by reading her own documents, in Latin, in the edition of her charters by Werner and Elke Goez for the Monumenta Germaniae Historica series). The Latin and English forms of her name are thus the same (in the nominative case, at least). So it is perfectly acceptable to call her 'Matilda'. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.65.196.54 (talk) 22:26, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

Just to explain my recent editing of Matilda's name: in Latin, her name is spelled either 'Matilda' or 'Mathilda' (this is the nominative case). The genitive forms would be Matildis or Mathildis. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.65.133.246 (talk) 03:57, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

Blatant Self-Promotion?

I noticed that a reference was made to a fictional book about Matilde of Tuscany simply because she was the main character in a story. Isn't that against Wiki policy,especially on articles that are expected to be historical truths?~~TRex10~~

Medieval gossip

I wonder how old must gossip be, to be acceptable in a Wikipedia article. Cosmas' story is highly entertaining, but also a little crazy. In the Middle Ages people were perhaps used to rickety furniture, but even then I doubt a comparatively old woman would have chosen a table on sawhorses as her conjugal bed: supposing her seduction had worked, just imagine making love on it. Besides, was Matilda feasting her wedding alone for 117 days, after her seduction did not work? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.33.159.42 (talk) 15:10, 6 May 2015 (UTC) Heartfelt thanks to Bisclavret34 for his or her amendments to my amendments in the Cosmas's Gossip Column Section! I'll remember that the pp of to seek is sought. Again thanks — Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.11.67.241 (talk) 22:36, 19 May 2015 (UTC)

Or Matilda of Canossa?

Shouldn't the entry be corrected? Look at the quoted http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/369347/Matilda-of-Canossa

The great mix (the great-granfather) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adalbert_Atto_of_Canossa, (the father) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boniface_III,_Margrave_of_Tuscany referred to as "of Canossa" does not allow a correct study of the history of the House of Canossa.

Could the editors please correct the title of the entry?

Marialuisa M — Preceding unsigned comment added by Marialuisa M (talk • contribs) 13:51, 19 May 2015 (UTC)

Marialuisa, to rename an article, wikipedia has a process, Wikipedia:Requested moves. The easiest way to convince other editors to support the move is to show that most sources refer to the subject by the name you are requesting the move to. Try doing some searches on books.google.com, and see how many hits each variation gives you. You might also ask if someone can show that more people search wikipedia for Matilda of Canossa (which currently redirects the user to this page). 1bandsaw (talk) 20:05, 19 May 2015 (UTC)

Pouring oil from towers

The contributor who remarks that olive oil was hard to come by, and presumably precious, especially in the area of Canossa Castle, is quite right. The olive tree does not grow in the Po Valley, much less in the Appennine. It is however a fact that oil is reported to have been largely used for lightning purposes,as being less expensive than candles; and another, that several common family names of the area contain the word "oil". I suggest it was probably not olive oil, but walnut oil. The walnut tree does prosper both in the Po Valley and in the Appennine mountains, up to about 800 mt/a/s. it could also have been hemp oil. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.33.155.99 (talk) 16:47, 22 May 2015 (UTC)

Thanks

Thanks to Aldebaran69 for the immense expansion of this article. I started working on it in 2015 but effectively abandoned it, and I am thrilled to see it in its current state. I am a bit concerned that the article might now be too big, i.e. sprawling, and would suggest moving most of Matilda_of_Tuscany#Origins_of_the_House_of_Canossa to House of Canossa as well as shortening many of the other sections to focus more on Matilda (e.g. the large first paragraph of Matilda_of_Tuscany#Birth_and_early_years does not seem to be about Matilda at all). Surtsicna (talk) 12:32, 22 June 2021 (UTC)

Who was Count Fuidi?

In the section "Personal rule", subsection "Matilda's role during the Investiture Controversy", sub-subsection "Final defeat of Henry IV etc.", a reference is made to a certain Count Fuidi. The reference is duly sourced, but since the average reader cannot be expected to obtain the cited work in order to understand the article, an explanation should be given of who this count was, especially because he is mentioned nowhere else on Wikipedia except this one time in this one article, and a Google search on his name yields no results whatsoever. I wonder if his name is merely spejle spelled wrongly?

I hope that someone who is better versed in medieval history than I am can shed some light on this.

Nikolaj1905 (talk) 18:20, 27 July 2024 (UTC)