Talk:Maurice Wilder-Neligan

"English born"

MOS:OPENPARA is very clear about this. Place of birth can be in the lead if relevant to the person's notability, but should not be in the lead sentence. Since being born in England is so very important to his story, I suggest expanding the lead to make it clear why. How about this:

... was an Australian soldier, who commanded the South Australian-raised 10th Battalion during the latter stages of World War I. Although born in Devon, England, he enlisted as a private in the Australian Imperial Force (AIF) on 20 August 1914 at Townsville, Queensland, under the name Maurice Wilder, giving Auckland as his place of birth. He rose to the rank of lieutenant colonel by the end of the war, fighting during the Gallipoli campaign and on the Western Front in France and Belgium.

LK (talk) 09:33, 6 May 2017 (UTC)

Since the sentence as it currently stands violates MOS:BIO guidelines, unless there are WP:POLICY based arguments why it should remain, I will be removing birth place from the lead sentence. LK (talk) 01:08, 7 May 2017 (UTC)

It violated nothing of the sort. MOS:BIO says, with respect to places of birth and death, "they should not be mentioned in the opening brackets of the lead sentence alongside the birth and death dates". The fact that he was English-born was never in the opening brackets of the lead sentence of the article. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 03:41, 7 May 2017 (UTC)

G'day, offering a third opinion here... personally I think that the original was more succinct, so I would suggest a reversion to that. That said, that there is a compromise solution that could be implemented: if there are concerns about mentioning that he was "English-born", I'd suggest removing those words from the original lead and just allowing the reader to learn about it later. Just my opinion, though. Regards, AustralianRupert (talk) 06:17, 7 May 2017 (UTC)

I've trimmed it. The MOS:BIO reference is a canard, it doesn't say what LK says. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 10:26, 7 May 2017 (UTC)

Bankruptcy?

The London Daily Telegraph of 1908 reports bankruptcy proceedings against Wilder-Neligan, and gives some additional info of his early life and travels. For anyone with a british newspaper archive subscription the link is http://www.britishnewspaperarchive.co.uk/viewer/bl/0001112/19080812/144/0012. Text of the article itself is below:

"A sitting for public examination was held in the case of Maurice Wilder Neligan, described as of Upper Grosvenor-street W and Poplar Hall, Appledore, Kent. The liabilities were returned as 5,574 pounds of which 2,374 pounds was expected to rank, against (money lent) 70 pounds. The receiving order was made in December last, but owing to the debtor’s non-attendance his public examination was adjourned sine die, and has since been reappointed. The debtor who is 26 years of age, stated that he was at sea for some four years until 1902, but has since been without occupation. His present position was due to his personal expenditure having exceeded his income, which had amounted to some 3,800 pounds since he came of age in October 1903, being derived from his interest under the marriage settlement of his mother, allowances from his wife, and gifts from friends. Of unsecured liabilities 2,275 pounds was in respect of money lent, including 2,150 pounds owing to a brother and 125 pounds to the petitioning creditor. The remainder represented general personal debts. In answer to his solicitor the debtor said that he went out to Ceylon in November last with the object of obtaining occupation there. At that date he had no idea that bankruptcy proceedings would be brought against him. The examination was concluded."

Daily Telegraph and Courier (London) 12 August 1908

Great stuff, thanks! Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 05:17, 28 September 2017 (UTC)

References

Daughter

A slightly less relevant newspaper source - Wilder-Neligan's daughter later became a talented fencer:

“A distinguished fencer is Miss Neligan (daughter of the late Lieut-Colonel Maurice Wilder-Neligan CMG DSO (Bar) DCM of the Australian Imperial Force, and Mrs Neligan) who last week won the Baptiste Bertrand Memorial Cup, given, for the first time, by Mr Miller Hallett in memory of the father of the present principal of the well-known academy bearing his name. …

Born in London but not within the sound of Bow Bells, Miss Neligan was educated at the Clovelly Kepplestone School, Eastbourne, whose principal is her aunt, Mrs F. H. Browne, the mother of Mr Maurice Browne, the young actor who made so distinguished a success in “The Unknown Warrior.” Always fascinated with swords, and swordsmanship, Miss Neligan decided between four and five years ago to take up fencing. So enthusiastic was she that even today she attends at least three times a week at the Academy …

She has recently been in the semi-finals of the Ladies’ Championship and of the Desprez Cup.”

The Sphere 26 May 1928

I think this is a little too obscure and tangential for inclusion. Cheers, Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 05:30, 28 September 2017 (UTC)

Yeah, probably so. The daughter only gets one line in the article, and it kind of reads like he never really went back to his family, so that's probably sufficient. -- Euryalus (talk) 05:33, 28 September 2017 (UTC)

References

Archives

Name is misspelled as Wilder-NeligEn. Prunerfood (talk) 04:25, 21 March 2018 (UTC)

Sorry, I don't know where you are referring to? Thanks, Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 06:29, 21 March 2018 (UTC)

Geographical problem

The article says "he worked as a clerk at a sugar mill weighbridge in Proserpine, Queensland, and while doing so, lived at Kelly's Club Hotel in Brandon, where he formed a close connection to the publican's family". Proserpine and Brandon are nearly 200km apart, so he wouldn't have commuted that distance every day. They're both sugar-growing towns, and I presume that two separate episodes in his life have become conflated. Peter Bell (talk) 03:29, 29 July 2018 (UTC)

Pinging Peacemaker67 for a response – Ianblair23 (talk) 03:36, 29 July 2018 (UTC)

Quite. Have checked the source and tweaked the wording to not explicitly link the two. Thanks, Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 05:06, 29 July 2018 (UTC)

Place of death

As Papua New Guinea was an Australian territory at the time of his death, shouldn't his place of death be 'Ekerapi, Territory of New Guinea, Australia'? - Emil Sayahi (talk) 09:58, 29 July 2018 (UTC)

Seems a bit overly technical, and New Guinea was a League of Nations mandated territory at the time, rather than part of Australia per se. Happy to parse it this finely if the consensus indicates that is what we should do. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 10:03, 29 July 2018 (UTC)