Talk:Max Hansen (tenor)

Name

Shouldn't the page rather be named Max Hansen (actor)? Hansen made a lot of movies and appeared at several stages, he wasn't (only) a singer. HerkusMonte (talk) 11:01, 26 October 2008 (UTC)

Would have been nice to discuss the move first. I still think, he's rather an actor and the infobox should be used. HerkusMonte (talk) 18:55, 27 October 2008 (UTC)

Yes indeed, you might have notified me before reverting my edit! (Just as I am doing now!) Anyway can you explain his acting career? This isn't noted in his biography. Perhaps he was an actor after the war? Is that it? --Kleinzach 08:13, 29 October 2008 (UTC)

?? He appeared in more than 30 movies between 1925 and 1956. He had his own Theater at Copenhagen (not an Opera house, I guess) and worked at the Theater an der Wien in Vienna. Max Reinhardt wasn't an Opera director and the "Kabarett der Komiker" wasn't an Opera house either. So, what's your definition of an actor? Up to now I can't see, why he is desribed as an Opera singer - (The White Horse Inn and The merry Widow are rather Operettas, not?) HerkusMonte (talk) 09:31, 29 October 2008 (UTC)

In which films did he appear in non-singing roles? Can you answer that? The text doesn't identify any non-singing roles, so these should be listed if he really was an actor. (Operettas are one of over 30 different genres of opera and as such are included in all the main opera reference works such as Grove etc.) Also, for the record, Max Reinhardt was an opera director, the Theater an der Wien was an opera house etc. etc. . . . . And please remember to indent. --Kleinzach 10:54, 29 October 2008 (UTC)

So we seem to have a significant different definition of Opera and Operetta as well as a definition of "actor". To me someone appearing in a movie, singing or not, is an actor. Reinhardt was the director of the Deutsches Theater in Berlin, usually not described as an Opera house (maybe we have different definitions here as well). However, if it's all about the infobox, I don't care. I think such an Infobox looks fine, gives the most important informations and should be used, that's it. HerkusMonte (talk) 11:23, 29 October 2008 (UTC)

On WP we use generally accepted definitions as given by printed works and by WP articles. I anticipated that you had some knowledge of the subject of this article, so I'm disappointed that you are unable to provide any information to back your assertion that he was a real actor. Anyway the infobox should go if there is no hard evidence for this.

For the record Reinhardt directed the first performances of Der Rosenkavalier, Ariadne auf Naxos and other operas and was jointly responsible for establishing the Salzburg Festival. This is not a matter of definitions - it's a matter of whether you know the first thing about this subject. --Kleinzach 02:37, 30 October 2008 (UTC)

"An actor, ... is a person who acts in a dramatic production and who works in film, television, theatre, or radio in that capacity."

Indeed - and the operative word there is acts. It doesn't mean that all people who appear in films are actors. Got it? --Kleinzach 07:43, 30 October 2008 (UTC)

An absurd discussion, he appeared in more than 30 movies, but he never acted? Absurd. HerkusMonte (talk) 07:47, 30 October 2008 (UTC)

cyranos.ch: "But his real career began together with the sound film era. Because of his singing voice and his acting talent he was soon pinned down for swinging musicals and comedies" Anything more to say? Is a "swinging musical" also a genre of Opera? You're absolutely right, I don't know anything about Opera, I never expected anybody would claim Hansen had been an Opera singer. Feel free to expand the article, maybe you should also expand the Peter Alexander article, an "Opera singer" who was also very popular for his "waiter Leopold" and always sang a song in his movies.

Judging by the article Peter Alexander doesn't appear to have anything to do with operetta or opera. What are you trying to say? --Kleinzach 08:24, 30 October 2008 (UTC)

Exactly, just because someone sings in his movies and embodies the waiter Leopold, he's still an actor, not an Opera singer, exactly.HerkusMonte (talk) 08:43, 30 October 2008 (UTC)

For the record: I just wonder why Max Reinhardt is described as an "Austrian (later naturalised American) theatre and film director and actor", up to now nobody has realised he was in fact an Opera director. HerkusMonte (talk) 07:28, 30 October 2008 (UTC)

For the record: people should read the German sources - or indeed the Grove. --Kleinzach 08:16, 30 October 2008 (UTC)

HerkusMonte why did you replace the fact tag after "Hansen was engaged by Max Reinhardt for "The beautiful Helena" with an irrelevant link to /www.filmportal.de. (There is no mention of Reinhardt on the page.) Please explain. Can you understand any German? --Kleinzach 07:49, 30 October 2008 (UTC)

PLEASE, please read the whole source (there's a small red bolt, use it) and yes I speak German.HerkusMonte (talk) 07:52, 30 October 2008 (UTC)

Right, now we have clarified that we have another major sung role and still no notable acting role. --Kleinzach 08:11, 30 October 2008 (UTC)

I'm not able to follow your logic, please read the sources and external links. To me this discussion is absurd, sorry. HerkusMonte (talk) 08:21, 30 October 2008 (UTC)

It is absurd. Why does it matter so much to you to insist that this man was an actor when you are unable to produce any evidence other than a list of film titles? --Kleinzach 08:29, 30 October 2008 (UTC)

Why is it so important to insist, that somebody who appeared in 35 movies and was very popular for his role in The White Horse Inn is a singer, a singer and nothing but a singer? HerkusMonte (talk) 08:43, 30 October 2008 (UTC)

The White Horse Inn is an operetta/musical. --Kleinzach 09:28, 30 October 2008 (UTC)

I just realised, the movie The White Horse Inn of 1926 was a Silent Movie! Was it a singing role of Hansen in that silent movie?HerkusMonte (talk) 08:51, 30 October 2008 (UTC)

It was quite common for singers to reprise their roles in silent films. --Kleinzach 09:26, 30 October 2008 (UTC)

Probably, but what did he do there, singing in a Silent Movie? Or acting as an actor? Douglas Wolfsperger's portray is described like this:

"War'n Sie schon mal in mich verliebt?" - So soll der berühmte Komiker Max Hansen ebenso ironisch wie deutlich Adolf Hitler als homosexuell attackiert haben. In den späten Zwanziger Jahren wurde Hansen gezwungen, Deutschland zu verlassen. Das Multitalent stand nie wieder auf einer deutschen Bühne. Seine Kinder und viele andere, die Teil seines Lebens waren, erzählen in diesem Film ihre Seite der Geschichte über das tragikomische Leben eines großen Entertainers.

A Comedian, Multitalent and Entertainer and all this is true, I simply can't see any reason to shorten it to "Opera singer". HerkusMonte (talk) 10:07, 30 October 2008 (UTC)

Once again the film portal site . . . . Why not go to a library and do some research? --Kleinzach 11:57, 30 October 2008 (UTC)

Senseless HerkusMonte (talk) 14:42, 30 October 2008 (UTC)

References

The article is based on

• filmportal.de
• steffi-line.de
• Max Hansen at IMDb
• Max Hansen at cyranos.ch

That's quiet a lot for a short article, I can't see why additional references are needed (always welcome of course). Is it really necessary to source every single sentence? HerkusMonte (talk) 07:40, 30 October 2008 (UTC)

These are all film references. Hansen was notable as a singer and the creator re-creator of the main tenor role in The Merry Widow. References are needed to his work as a singer which was the major part of his career. --Kleinzach 08:20, 30 October 2008 (UTC)

Removal of substantial content

HerkusMonte: You removed a substantial amount of content here [1]. This is what is called a point attack. It is deplored. If you want to challenge a series of facts in the article, then do it here. (If you want to challenge something specific, you can also put a 'fact tag' in an appropriate place in the article.) Deleting information simply because it was contributed by another editor is counterproductive to the encyclopedia. --Kleinzach 00:12, 28 November 2008 (UTC)

Dear Kleinzach, you removed the "citation needed" tag twice without providing any source. There's no source for your claim, he was popular with these songs. The German WP isn't a source for the English WP. In fact, you seem to push your "Opera singer" POV by adding unsourced information. As you said above: Why not go to a library and do some research? HerkusMonte (talk) 07:58, 28 November 2008 (UTC)

BTW: the linked article doesn't exist. HerkusMonte (talk) 09:21, 28 November 2008 (UTC)

Film Frelst fra forbrydelsens vej (1913)

Hansen is credited with appearing in this early film - but is there any reference available? It doesn't seem to fit in with the biography which places him in Munich, not Denmark, at this time. --Kleinzach 00:44, 28 November 2008 (UTC)

dk:Max Hansen, and that's why I added a . HerkusMonte (talk) 08:32, 28 November 2008 (UTC)

As there is still no verification for this item, I've removed it. --Kleinzach 04:13, 19 December 2008 (UTC)

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