Talk:Megleno-Romanians

Missing section

Outside Rumanian nationalist circles, there is no scholarly consensus that the Vlashi should be referred to as Megleno-Romanians.--Theathenae 20:21, 4 September 2005 (UTC)

Oops, look: Britannica is part of the Rumanian nationalist circles:

Megleno-Romanian, a nearly extinct dialect (britannica.com)

Wow, ethnologue are part of the conspiracy, too!

Romanian, Megleno (ethnologue)

Look, even UCLA say that it is called:

Megleno Romanian (spoken in a small area north of Salonika) (ucla.edu)

The Helsinki Human Rights Commission uses it, too:

Vlachs are those whose mother tongue is Vlachika (for both Aromanian and Megleno-Romanian) (greekhelsinki.gr)

It's incredible how far the Vast Rumanian Conspiracy goes. bogdan | ^Talk 20:41, 4 September 2005 (UTC)

One wonders why you insist on imposing the "Romanian" label on people who don't identify as such. For an "anarchist", your views on the Vlachs are rather imperialistic. There is no scholarly consensus that the people should be referred to as "Megleno-Romanians". The only neutral name is Vlashi, which is the name they use for themselves and which is not used by any other Vlach group today.--Theathenae 04:55, 5 September 2005 (UTC)

Yes, Megleno-Romanians is an exonym. (it's intersting that Vlashi started out as an exonym, too) We're using here simply because more people use this name and according to Wikipedia policy, this should be the article title. bogdan | ^Talk 05:57, 5 September 2005 (UTC)

More people use this name where? In Rumania?--Theathenae 06:17, 5 September 2005 (UTC)

See the links I gave you. bogdan | ^Talk 07:02, 5 September 2005 (UTC)

The links refer to the language, not the people.--Theathenae 07:59, 5 September 2005 (UTC)

I also find it curious that you object to the title Vlashi, when you display no such sensitivity in regards to the use of the name Macedonian(s) for only one of the ethnic groups inhabiting Macedonia. Double standards?--Theathenae 10:19, 5 September 2005 (UTC)

Sources

UNESCO RED BOOK ON ENDANGERED LANGUAGES: EUROPE refers to this language as Melenic or Megleno-Romanian. The term Vlashi is nowhere to be seen. Obviously, now we can't use the word Vlashi for their language. UNESCO must be neutral. Unless User:Theathenae feels that he knows better than the professionals who compiled this document. That is unlikely. So naturally, Theathenae will have to withdraw his request that the word Vlashi be used (the far-right Greek extremist view). Shame. REX 23:00, 5 September 2005 (UTC)

I suppose the people who call themselves Vlashi are also far-right Greek extremists, and you are the enlightened soul who knows what's best for them. It appears some of that British imperialism has rubbed off on you. Well done.--Theathenae 06:43, 6 September 2005 (UTC)

No, it is you who refuses to accept that Greece is now a multicultural society and have a concerted agenda here to deempasize the historical/linguistic links that the minorities of Greece (such as Arvanites & Megleno-Romanians) have with groups outside of Greece (you should all see the fuss he made on the Talk:Arvanites page). The name Vlaşi, is what Megleno-Romanians call themselves in the Megleno-Romanian language, this though is an English language Wikipedia and the name Megleno-Romanian is the name accepted by the Helsinki Report: Very little has been written about the Megleno-Romanians, who are supposed to be descendants of the Turkic Pechenegs (Nakratzas, 1988:85-6; Lazarou, 1986:133; Winnifrith, 1987:23); today, they are the only Vlachs who call themselves Vlasi in their own language. So, the Helsinki Report says that the English name for these people is Megleno-Romanians therefore thet is what we shall use because they are truly neutral (I love those Helsinki Reports, they are the perfect weapon against Greek extremism). REX 07:58, 6 September 2005 (UTC)

POV

Theathenae, you are commiting Vandalism on the Megleno-Romanians article. You are adding false facts. I must insist on references for these facts or they will be removed because they are a violation of Wikipedia policies Wikipedia:No original research and Wikipedia:Verifiability and Wikipedia:NPOV. REX 15:30, 8 September 2005 (UTC)

My source is Koukoudis who uses the term consistently. Do a Google search and see for yourself. You are committing vandalism by removing valid information.--Theathenae 15:33, 8 September 2005 (UTC)

I just did a Google search. I found nothing. You are lying in order to put tour POV on the article. I suggest you read Wikipedia:No original research and Wikipedia:Verifiability and Wikipedia:NPOV and try to follow the instructions. REX 15:43, 8 September 2005 (UTC)

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=%CE%92%CE%BB%CE%B1%CF%87%CE%BF%CE%BC%CE%BF%CE%B3%CE%BB%CE%B5%CE%BD%CE%AF%CF%84%CE%B5%CF%82. I suggest you learn the virtue of silence.--Theathenae 15:48, 8 September 2005 (UTC)

Theathenae I suggest that you read Wikipedia:Verifiability#Sources should be in English. It clearly says that: As this is the English Wikipedia, sources must be in the English language so that readers and editors can understand them. I suggest that you observe Wikipedia policy and stop commiting vandalism. Your sources are in some other language (not English). How do I know that they are saying what you say they are saying? I can't speak that language. Therefore I removed your obviously POV statements and replaced them with ones which conform to Wikipedia policy. REX 17:33, 8 September 2005 (UTC)

WRONG!!! It says 'wherever possible. I've reverted you. --Node 01:15, 30 October 2005 (UTC)

Please write this page in Turkish too There are lots of karacaovali's living in Turkey and they don't know their ethnicity and even their fathers language too. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Celikadam1 (talk • contribs) 20:49, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

Vlashi

Seeing as how the Megleno-Romanian language is Slavicized (via Macedonian and Bulgarian) to a high degree, much more than Daco-Romanian, it is fairly obvious that the Megleno-Romanians lost the traditional Romanus-derived ethnonym (from Latin) and adopted the exonym Vlashi (derived from Slavic speakers, in turn from Germanic, but that's far back; the Greek usage of "Vlachoi" also derives from the Slavic usage) from the Slavs. The Greek influence in Megleno-Romanian is nothing compared to the Slavic. Alexander 007 05:18, 7 January 2006 (UTC)

History

Early history is missing from the article. How Vlasi apeared in Greece? `'mikka (t) 18:55, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

Some sources claim they are Latinized Pechenegs.--Tekleni 19:03, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

I am not asking out of personal curiosity. My remark means that the article needs work. `'mikka (t) 21:06, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

Added a to do for that. Many other sources connect them Thraco-Roman and Daco-Roman.--Codrin.B (talk) 21:09, 3 January 2011 (UTC)

My edit

I do not claim I did a particularly interesting expansion, but at least I tried (I see nobody working on this article). I am sorry, I have to take a break now. I am sorry to leave it in the middle: half expanded, half not. I will continue editing it in a few hours. Feel free to work on it. Dc76\^talk 08:55, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

Changes by MacedonianBoy - Adding list of languages that Megleno-Romanians should/are speaking

Below is a discussion started on user pages which should get more opinions:

Hi! I saw your recent edit to Megleno-Romanians, mentioning whatever other languages the Megleno-Romanians might speak. What's the point of that? Maybe some of them know English and Spanish. I am ready to revert, but wanted your input. Nice picture of Machu Picchu. Been there last month. Regards!--Codrin.B (talk) 17:43, 6 January 2011 (UTC)

Hello.Yes, it is true that they may speak even English, but often in that box are put the languages that are official in the country where people live and that means they know it for sure (some may use them at home for instance). I have seen that in many infoboxes and that's why I have put it. Best--MacedonianBoy (talk) 17:45, 6 January 2011 (UTC)

You must be kidding. It sounds very unrealistic to list all languages of one countries as spoken by a tiny minority and hints to some nationalistic agenda not welcomed on Wikipedia. Can you give any examples? And let's keep the discussion in one place. Thanks.--Codrin.B (talk) 17:50, 6 January 2011 (UTC)

Double the comment above. Since when is this the case? --Laveol ^T 18:55, 6 January 2011 (UTC)

One more observation. Imagine writing all languages of the countries in which they live for infoboxes related of Jewish or Chinese minorities. You will have to write hundreds of them! --Codrin.B (talk) 03:05, 7 January 2011 (UTC)

Let start listing (see the infobox): Quechuas, Aymara people, Navajo people, Romani people, Basque people, Laz people, Tatars, Sami people, Gagauz people and many others that are 'tiny minority' in the concerned counties, but you should search a bit. Nationalistic agenda? I am not interested in those people at all, particularly not about few hundreds, but I found valuable to give more data. Also, if you see the article you can read that 'they are slavisized' so they speak Macedonian right? BTW, how Laveol is connected with this discussion? --MacedonianBoy (talk) 13:46, 7 January 2011 (UTC)

Hmm, I just had a look at Romani people (cause I was sure of what I'd find in the article). It says: "Romani, languages of native region". And that's it. I didn't see every single European language listed. --Laveol ^T 14:12, 7 January 2011 (UTC)

It is the same my friend, all the same since there are many 'languages of native region'. It's obvious. Same as in Aromanians or you may want specific list of languages here --MacedonianBoy (talk) 14:23, 7 January 2011 (UTC)

Response to third opinion request:

My opinion is that since the addition of the extra languages 1) is unsourced and 2) has been challenged, they should not be included. If there were a reliable source for these languages being commonly spoken by many people in this region, in addition to Megleno-Romanian, then that would be one thing. Even then, though -- are these all first languages of sizeable segments of the population? Second languages should probably only be included in the infobox if they are legally "official" languages (and there is an RS saying so).—WikiDao ☯ 23:37, 6 January 2011 (UTC)

Skra

I tried to follow the Skra link from the table of villages and ended in the jungle of Borneo, Malaysia, which was not where I intend to go in the autumn. It seems that there is no article about Skra Kilkis Greece in english Wikipedia. There is, however, an article in Greek Wikipedia about Σκρα Κιλκίς, so someone with some knowlegde of Greek could easily make a start. I could always handle the Greek stuff, but I have no experience in working with Wikipedia, far less do I know how to go about creating an article from scratch. Hope someone gives it a go. Regards! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.160.40.10 (talk) 16:55, 13 January 2011 (UTC)

Outrageous renaming of an ethnic group, contrary to all scientific studies

I find it typical of WP that people have the arrogance to rename an ethnic group, according to a 19th century view of the origins of its language. whatever the language is called, the ethnic group has always been known by the name that they themselves use -- VLACH. It is imperative that the article be renamed in accordance with reality. It is not fit for a children's encyclopedia. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 37.6.241.6 (talk) 23:37, 22 November 2015 (UTC)

MegPopular personage

After Toše Proeski, one could add an Ottoman pasha Nikola (Telli Hasan Paşa) born in the 16. the century (between 1535-1540) in Trebinje and along with 30 children brought to the capital as in devshirme. Regards Manaviko (talk) 17:13, 28 April 2018 (UTC)